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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30251: Apr 5th 2015 at 2:46:14 PM

Really, Gwen isn't even in the MCU that we know of, so I'm curious what's going on.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30252: Apr 5th 2015 at 3:50:06 PM

I doubt Gwen will show up in the MCU any time soon. If anything, I think Black Cat's overdue to be a movie love interest for Spidey.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#30253: Apr 5th 2015 at 5:30:59 PM

Peter Parker has so many iconic love interests, I can think of six off the top of my head.

edited 5th Apr '15 5:31:16 PM by Whowho

lackofsense Since: Jan, 2013
#30254: Apr 5th 2015 at 5:44:31 PM

I get really really REALLY tired of the Doylist line of reasoning in regards to story telling. Beyond that, the name of the show/comic isn't Gwen Stacy it's Spider-man. I know that a death is hard even in fiction, but it doesn't invalidate development for that character. It gives the death itself more meaning.

People die everyday through no fault of their own like a bolt from a clear blue sky. Is killing a woman to cause the most pain sexist? Yeah! There is one thing you guys seem to forget though. The villain is the one who does it in story and the writer rarely shares the same point of view as the villain.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30255: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:25:18 PM

[up][up][up] Is it wrong/annoying that I still want to see Emma Stone as Black Cat?

Fun MCU/Emma Stone fact: Before Jan van Dyne was gonna be alive in Ant-Man, one of the many candidates to play as her was, in fact, Emma Stone.

edited 5th Apr '15 6:27:54 PM by TargetmasterJoe

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#30256: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:34:15 PM

[up][up] Yes, but the writer is the one who's, well, writing the story. Barring, say, an editorial mandate, the writer is the one to decide to have the villain kill off the character.

Furthermore, while killing off a character doesn't invalidate their previous development, it does effectively prevent the character from undergoing any further development - unless they're resurrected, and that doesn't happen to all of them. When a writer kills off a hero's love interest, they are consciously making a decision that they aren't interested in telling the love interest's story, and that she (and it's usually a she in these cases) is better off dead.

Now, if this were just to have happened once, with Gwen Stacy, then it arguably wouldn't be a cause for concern. But when it keeps happening again and again - and not just in comic books - well, it suggests that writers are more interested in killing/injuring/depowering/etc. female characters to cause angst for the male hero than actually developing said female characters.

[up] I think you mean dead.

...Unless I missed something?

edited 5th Apr '15 6:35:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30257: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:38:08 PM

[up] IIRC, Jan was totally gonna be alive and well in the first drafts of Ant-Man.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#30258: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:43:58 PM

[up][up]Isn't ASM 2 only the second time Gwen was actually killed?

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#30259: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:46:08 PM

[up] I'm afraid I couldn't tell you. But she's far from the only female character to be killed off to give the male hero angst.

Oh God! Natural light!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#30260: Apr 5th 2015 at 6:54:48 PM

Is anyone hoping a hypothetical Guardians of the Galaxy 3 movie will essentially be a mishmash of elements from Annihilation and Annihilation: Conquest and have the Guardians go toe-to-toe with Ultron? (Based on past experiences, it's apparent that it's hard to kill an A.I., so I doubt we'll see Ultron only once.)

edited 5th Apr '15 6:57:12 PM by TargetmasterJoe

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#30261: Apr 5th 2015 at 8:28:54 PM

IIRC, Jan was totally gonna be alive and well in the first drafts of Ant-Man.

I don't know about that. Wright was talking about his legacy idea for years.

She was however in the early drafts of the Avengers as a major character. I'm not sure if this was Jan or some sort of Janet Jr. situation.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#30262: Apr 5th 2015 at 8:52:18 PM

[up] I really wish we had had Jan as a scientist who spends most of the movie shrunken down to the size of...well, a wasp.

edited 5th Apr '15 8:52:46 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#30263: Apr 6th 2015 at 12:15:19 AM

New video. The first half we've seen but the second is a nice look at the Seoul chase scene and some Black Widow action.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#30264: Apr 6th 2015 at 12:18:57 AM

[up][up] I still think there's a fair chance of that being the case, albeit in the flashback portions of the plot rather than the present.

[up] I hope it becomes a running thing that each Avengers movie forces Cap to fight the bad guy one on one for a while, even though they're a bit out of his weight class, simply because no one else is available.

"Why is it that I always have to get in a fistfight with the guys who can punch through solid steel? Why can't Hawkeye do it?"

edited 6th Apr '15 12:24:14 AM by KnownUnknown

TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#30265: Apr 6th 2015 at 1:31:17 AM

Also, Cap and Widow seem to be really good at fighting together now. That shield manoeuvre, regardless of magnets, is impressive.

Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch are still being rather neglected in trailers though.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#30266: Apr 6th 2015 at 1:42:19 AM

Scarlet Witch I don't think is being neglected so much as having scenes too important to the plot (compared to Quicksilver who gets the cool action scenes but not much relevance plotwise) and they don't want to spoil it.

Hawkeye though is just... well, Hawkeye. The 'badass normal' whose not a) Captain America or b) Scarlett Johanson in a tight outfit. He's not had much else MCU wise sadly.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#30267: Apr 6th 2015 at 1:54:48 AM

Glad to see Cap and Widow continuing to work together. They make a great duo.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#30268: Apr 6th 2015 at 4:19:18 AM

Cap and Black Widow are my favourite fighting team in the world

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#30269: Apr 6th 2015 at 8:14:04 AM

This definitely felt like "Black Widow's trailer"

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#30270: Apr 6th 2015 at 8:28:15 AM

I'm hoping the "I have a bow and arrow" joke is a prelude to him doing something really awesome.

TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#30271: Apr 6th 2015 at 8:46:01 AM

He's progressed into a fancy bow and arrow now. I seem to remember reading that he got some Stark-provided upgrades too, so that means trick arrows. So yeah, probably.

Also, an awesome jacket. That is a good utilitarian costume.

edited 6th Apr '15 8:47:38 AM by TenebrousGaze

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#30272: Apr 6th 2015 at 9:04:29 AM

I hope it becomes a running thing that each Avengers movie forces Cap to fight the bad guy one on one for a while, even though they're a bit out of his weight class, simply because no one else is available.
Well, it'd be a perfect way to adapt that awesome scene between Cap and Thanos from Infinity Gauntlet when the third movie comes around.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30273: Apr 6th 2015 at 9:04:37 AM

I get really really REALLY tired of the Doylist line of reasoning in regards to story telling. Beyond that, the name of the show/comic isn't Gwen Stacy it's Spider-man. I know that a death is hard even in fiction, but it doesn't invalidate development for that character. It gives the death itself more meaning.

People die everyday through no fault of their own like a bolt from a clear blue sky. Is killing a woman to cause the most pain sexist? Yeah! There is one thing you guys seem to forget though. The villain is the one who does it in story and the writer rarely shares the same point of view as the villain.

There is no such thing as Atheist Fiction. Every universe that exists in a story has an almighty God, and that God is the writer. The sun rises and sets at the writer's whim. People live and die as the writer allows them. The writer has a plan and everything that transpires is a direct consequence of that writer's plan. All things are predestined in accordance with the almighty script, and though the writer may change his plan if something better comes to his mind, everything occurs because he chooses for it to.

Gwen Stacy was killed because Norman Osborn wanted to cause her pain, yes, but Osborn was permitted to succeed by the Almighty Creator of his universe because a real-world writer made a choice, that her death in this moment had more value than her life. In that moment, villain and writer were aligned. Both killed Gwen Stacy for the pain it would cause Peter.

Gwen's death is remembered so strongly in the fanbase because when it occurred, it was something considered unthinkable in comics. The supporting cast was untouchable. They might get in danger or have wacky adventures but their Plot Armor was as thick as the hero's. At the time, Gwen's death was an iconic moment, not just for Spider-Man but for comic books as a whole.

At the time. Today, however, killing off female characters to motivate male protagonists is completely overplayed, and audiences are growing sick of it. Gwen's death changed the world of comic books when it first happened, but that was decades ago; it's time to let it go, as so many other things from that time have been.

It's actually gotten rather uncomfortable that the one sacred cow in ALL OF COMICS is a woman's broken body lying dead on the concrete. That all else may change, but no one better think about touching that corpse. That fans are more concerned with Gwen's death than her life.

edited 6th Apr '15 9:06:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30274: Apr 6th 2015 at 9:58:45 AM

[up]...How many issues were there before the one sacred cow IN ALL OF COMICS came back as a clone, again?

edited 6th Apr '15 9:59:40 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30275: Apr 6th 2015 at 10:09:32 AM

Are you guys still on about that?

Well, he already had trick arrows previously.


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