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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30076: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:00:43 PM

Yeah, I'm more inclined to be forgiving to The Flash's flaws since it's not always taking itself seriously.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30077: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:00:45 PM

Skipped a bunch of shows to point out that yeah, my bad, Linda is Wally's love interest, but the show is about Barry, and Iris is his love interest. Also, I forgot which was the reporter.

zsax Since: Mar, 2015
#30078: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:08:54 PM

Both of them are reporters. [lol] Well, in the comics they are. Really original, huh?

edited 1st Apr '15 7:10:37 PM by zsax

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#30079: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:19:47 PM

Comics love repeating themselves, especially DC.

Like how DC constantly rewrites the various Robins' backstories to make them more like Dick.

edited 1st Apr '15 7:20:26 PM by KnownUnknown

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30080: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:46:01 PM

It turns out Damian's parents were both trapeze acrobats. How? Don't ask questions.

Actually, Spinnerette has recently been lampshading how a hero's local reporter is one of the most important people in their life.

edited 1st Apr '15 7:49:58 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#30081: Apr 1st 2015 at 10:45:21 PM

The biggest problem with Flash is that I predicted after the first episode (and without seeing the last five minutes) that: 1. Wells was the big bad of the season 2. Who most likely killed Barry's mother 3. That time travel is involved 4. And that a huge part of the show will be about Barry and Iris and him not telling her anything while she is danger more often than not

I didn't watch the last episodes (I was too annoyed how they skipped over the fate of the bomb creating soldier...that was a tragic episode and yet it wasn't addressed again, rinse, repeat, no impact on the characters) but gathered, I was right. And that's the problem. The CW-ness of the show aside, it is utterly predictable.

Ao S on the other hand started out really weak, but has improved in strides. And if there is one thing you can't accuse the show of, it's being predictable. I have no idea what Coulson will do next. I am still not sure if Gordon is really the well-meaning guy he seems to be or if he has ulterior motives. I wonder what Ward is up to. And what will Shield 1.3 do now with our poor science babies? Will Fitz ever be able to trust anyone again?

Which brings me to the next point: As bland as the characters originally were, they all went through changes during the show and now there is not one single character in it I would call boring.

edited 1st Apr '15 10:45:49 PM by Swanpride

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#30082: Apr 1st 2015 at 11:56:36 PM

All I know about The Flash is the fact that they're going with the whole "keeping the hero's girlfriend in the dark to protect her" cliche. I know this because of all the complaints I've seen on Tumblr.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#30083: Apr 2nd 2015 at 12:00:50 AM

To be fair, that's tumblr. Anything where a white man is the lead is the worst thing ever created and is the embodiment of systemic oppression.

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#30084: Apr 2nd 2015 at 12:04:57 AM

Okay so he's not keeping his girlfriend in the dark to protect her?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#30085: Apr 2nd 2015 at 12:09:02 AM

It's an annoying trope in general so if that's the case, then shame on the writers for taking that route. But Tumblr does love finding excuses to Accentuate the Negative, and tying it to some form of oppression is often just their excuse to rationalize ragging on it. For crying out loud I've seen people argue that the Steven Universe anime April Fool's joke was offensive just because they didn't like the style, rather than the other way around.

As well as people accusing Agent Carter of being racist, but it seems like most of it is motivated by part of Wasp's and Black Widow's Fan Dumb upset that Peggy was chosen to lead a series over their favorites, then coming up with a reason to bash the show after the fact, than actual social consciousness.

edited 2nd Apr '15 12:16:57 AM by AlleyOop

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#30086: Apr 2nd 2015 at 12:11:52 AM

[up][up] Yes, though it's a bit more complicated than that. Initially he was only doing it because her father made him. Then he was doing it because they were drifting apart, and her life had become largely separate from his anyway, so she wasn't even really involved enough to need to know. Now he's doing it because they're fighting a guy who kills people the instant he discovers that they're onto him, who has already targeted the person with whom she was investigating that very case with, so they're keeping it as under wraps as possible.

It's very unlikely that Iris will continue to not know past this season, given the way the show has been presenting it these last few episodes (Barry did tell her, but she doesn't remember. Now he really wants to, and he's already getting lecture about how not telling her isn't a good idea).

The main reason it's never bothered me is because while she's a person he cares about, she's not like - say - Spider-Man's close loved ones, who are constantly affected by his costumed life, always in the crossfire in some way or another, and lose nothing by finding out about it. The show has been treating her more like a civilian for at least half a season, with her life separating from Barry's to such a degree that her not finding out isn't keeping her in the dark any more than it is any other person he knows.

edited 2nd Apr '15 12:24:00 AM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#30087: Apr 2nd 2015 at 3:16:39 AM

Iris is Barry's adoptive sister. She is for all sense and purposes the person he is the closest to in the world, independent from the question if she is his girl-friend or not. So no, I wouldn't say that the way how Flash deals with the issue is any less stupid than it is in any other show.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#30088: Apr 2nd 2015 at 6:49:22 AM

I thought this was the MARVEL thread . Anyway, how does anyone feel that we pretty much know the basic plot of Age of Ultron already? I mean, we have some outline for the first and third acts at least

edited 2nd Apr '15 6:49:38 AM by Xopher001

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#30089: Apr 2nd 2015 at 6:57:25 AM

Well, the devil is in the character development and other details.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30090: Apr 2nd 2015 at 7:47:49 AM

I feel like Age of Ultron is taking a bunch of random iconic Avengers stuff and squeezing it all together to force it to fit in a coherent story. "Ultron is a Chitari AI! Vision is JARVIS! Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't mutants for legal reasons and they side with Ultron, because if they didn't side with Ultron their inclusion in the movie would have no relevance to the main plot whatsoever!"

Now, whether or not all of this is going to come together and make an enjoyable story remains to be seen (though I have a sneaking suspicion Age of Ultron won't exactly be a bad movie...)

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#30091: Apr 2nd 2015 at 7:53:27 AM

It's at times like this when I keep remembering someone somewhere saying that this was one of the strongest scripts they've had, but I've never been able to find that exact quote anywhere.

I also do not think it'll be bad.

Edit: Regarding your last point, DOFP Quicksilver was probably worse-integrated into his own movie. His only purpose was to do that ONE thing. That's the only justification he got and he was never seen again. At least Joss is trying to give them a purpose. And really, if you're adding a new character, you need to give him/her a reason to be there don't you? You don't introduce a new character without a point anyway.

edited 2nd Apr '15 7:59:56 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30092: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:00:28 AM

[up]DOFP Quicksilver was also hinted to be Magneto's son, and he'll be reappearing in X-Men Apocalypse, so his inclusion in DOFP was far from pointless. Also, Rule of Funny. That's like complaining that the shawarma scene in Avengers was pointless to the plot.

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:01:10 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#30093: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:06:36 AM

I didn't say that he was pointless, I'm just saying that if you NEED to introduce a character in the movie, you need a justification. And Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch siding with Ultron is as good as any.

DOFP's justification for Quicksilver being there was a little flimsier, but it was cool, so good enough. Joss just wants to tie his new characters into the greater plot more.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#30094: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:14:02 AM

[up][up]It is kinda weird you complain the way the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were integrated into the Avengers while simultaneously ignoring the flaws of Quicksilver integration into DOFP. For all we know, they are also paving the way for future movies in the Avengers as he was in X Men(maybe). And even if that isn't the case, who cares? They are new Avengers introduced into the holster. It is not like Ironman had deep ties into the first movie plot.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#30095: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:14:24 AM

[up][up][up]Except, y'know, the shwarma scene took place at the very end, and was clearly not meant to be part of the plot.

Whereas Quicksilver in DOFP took place in the middle of the film, and without him the plot would have gone in a radically different direction.

Whatever they plan to do with him in the future, he didn't serve much of a purpose in DOFP beyond being a plot enabler.

And to another point, we don't know that Ultron is a Chitauri AI. We know he was found in the ruins of the invasion. That does not make him Chitauri, that just means they found him, in New York, after the invasion. He could have been a hidden, human project that was unearthed by all the destruction. He doesn't even need to be a particularly advanced one, considering that it's apparently being connected to Loki's scepter, heavily hinted if not outright confirmed to be an Infinity Stone, that gives him sentience.

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:16:33 AM by Khfan429

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#30096: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:15:05 AM

The first Avengers film was pretty enjoyable in spite of having a pretty rubbish Excuse Plot and an annoyingly shallow main villain. Age of Ultron seems like it'll be a step up for at least trying to do better on both ends.

[up]Unless they are blatantly retconning things the scepter is definitely not an Infinity Stone. Someone in the Avengers (I think it was Fury) explicitly stated that the scepter drew its power from the Tesseract, and there's the whole thing about Widow being able to bust the machine because it came from the same powersource. I think the scepter is just a way to maintain the Tesseract's powers as a MacGuffin now that the original has been squirreled away.

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:20:41 AM by AlleyOop

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#30098: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:24:19 AM

Same power source in this context could just mean the Infinity Stones have the same kind of energy in them.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#30099: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:29:52 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]I'm not saying Age of Ultron's inclusion of Quicksilver is inherently bad, just a little inelegant. I'm aware Do FP could've integrated Quicksilver more smoothly, but I'll forgive the writers for that because the end result made the movie more amusing and enjoyable. Now, whether or not I'll enjoy the MCU Quicksilver as much remains to be seen. If I think he's an awesome character, I probably won't care how well or poorly he's integrated into the plot, but if he ends up being stupid and annoying, I'll probably be complaining that his inclusion was pointless. The bottom line is really how enjoyable the movie is to watch.

[up][up][up][up]Rule of Funny: "Any violation of continuity, logic, physics, or common sense is permissible if the result gets enough of a laugh." The fact that Quicksilver's scene was longer and affected the plot more than the shawarma scene doesn't change the fact that it was included purely to be funny. If they'd needed to, the writers could've come up with a number of ways to rescue Erik from prison, but they probably would've been pretty mundane compared to Quicksilver's big scene.

As for the Chitauri AI, yeah, you're right, I don't think we know that for a fact. There was some promo info that made it sound that way, but it could've just been misleading. It'll, uh, probably be a lot easier for me to discuss the merits of this movie once it's actually in theaters...

[up][up][up]That's a fair point. The plot hasn't always been the MCU's strong suit in the first place.

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:32:09 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#30100: Apr 2nd 2015 at 8:36:05 AM

[up][up] I'm very certain the beginning of Avengers explicitly showed the scepter being powered up by the Tesseract. Also each of the Infinity stones are supposed to have a different color, and only one of them is shown as blue (the Tesseract). The closest next thing would be purple but that's already been shown to be the Orb.

Also, Word of God from Feige himself is that he didn't really consider the scepter to be an Infinity Stone, at least at the time they began shooting for Age of Ultron. Besides, mind control has always been one of Loki's inherent abilities. While mind control is something that the Mind Stone can do, he doesn't need it for that. And besides, the Mind Stone is more known for mind reading and amplifying psychic abilities (think Jean Grey).

I want to talk about the teaser at the end. [SPOILER ALERT.] We see that Loki’s staff has not been forgotten about. Are we to believe that maybe that’s another one of the Infinity Stones, or is that just pure speculation at this point?

Well, it’s certainly pure speculation at this point. I’m not even sure if we even recognize Loki’s scepter [as an Infinity Stone], but that’s a big hint as to what will be causing them trouble in the next movie.

By the way I'm not saying it's impossible for the scepter to be the Mind Stone. Just that it would be a retcon if it was, due to what has been definitively stated about it in the past.

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:58:22 AM by AlleyOop


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