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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29526: Mar 20th 2015 at 9:51:51 AM

Its mostly dumbass paranoid john bircher people whose beliefs than infect the rest of the populace.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#29527: Mar 20th 2015 at 2:35:56 PM

Well, if they have a world security council, the UN might be stronger in the MCU. I imagine in a world with people of mass destruction The Cold War might have been a little more destructive, (Imagine the Karla trilogy, but where Karla could blow up cities) so it might have motivated a global peacekeeping force.

I mean, keep in mind, the H in SHIELD stands by 'Homeland' which explicitly refers to the entire planet earth.

Incidentally, The Karla trilogy but with superpowers is my ideal hypothetical film franchise.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#29529: Mar 20th 2015 at 2:57:13 PM

By the way, who were the Council members from Winter Soldier supposed to be exactly? I'm less familiar with Marvel canon where SHIELD is concerned. I got the feeling they were from various countries, maybe they were the MCU equivalent of UN ?

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29530: Mar 20th 2015 at 2:59:07 PM

Actually... it's entirely possible they were the heads of Hydra, now that I think of it.

It'd at least justify them wanting to use a nuclear bomb on New York.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#29531: Mar 20th 2015 at 2:59:36 PM

The UN exists in the MCU if you trust Agents of Shield. One episode deals with an attack at the UN headquarters (and the UN's response to SHIELD's implosion is a subplot running through the show) so the World Council of Avengers and Winter Soldier were probably a different organization (but possibly inter-connected).

As far as I'm aware, they have no comic equivalent.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#29532: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:01:35 PM

[up][up]Weren't the people Pierce was holding hostage during the climax of Winter Soldier the Security Council?

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29533: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:02:04 PM

Oh. You're right, they probably were. Damn.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#29534: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:02:07 PM

Never mind, got [nja]ed.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:02:45 PM by C105

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29535: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:04:29 PM

In their defense, the nuke probably would have worked.

It would have killed tons of people and left Manhattan a heavily irradiated no man's land for decades to come, but it probably would have ended the invasion. Even with its forcefield, it's unlikely the portal generator would be able to continue generating the portal once the building it rests upon suffers Critical Existence Failure, hurling or dropping the generator hundreds of feet until it to shatters into a million pieces on its own impenetrable forcefield as it hits the ground.

It's a terribly brute force method of shutting down the generator and, as I said, it would have horrific consequences for the city of New York and the global economy, but the aliens would be stopped.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:05:39 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29536: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:06:10 PM

Well, see, that first bit? I wouldn't consider that "working."

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29537: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:06:56 PM

A Phyrric Victory is still technically a victory.

One could argue that losing a city is better than losing the entire planet, which is the standpoint they were arguing from. Once the city falls to the aliens and becomes a staging ground for full-scale invasion, it's too late to just throw a nuke at them.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:07:43 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29538: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:09:30 PM

I disagree that there's such a thing as a phyrric victory to begin with- I would consider that a failure.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#29539: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:14:25 PM

It's an interesting idea. I wonder if Loki or Selvig accounted for that when building the device...

Oh God! Natural light!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#29540: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:18:00 PM

wouldn't have worked...because the Portal was still open.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29541: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:18:09 PM

I would consider losing the city to the aliens and allowing them to wage an unwinnable war against the entire planet to be a failure, personally.

[up] but would it still be open without the generator sustaining it? The portal has No Ontological Inertia. There is a constant stream of energy coming from the generator, and the portal dissipates almost immediately once that stream is cut.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:19:18 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#29542: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:20:09 PM

No, since Widow didn't go through a portal shutdown sequence to close it, just disabled the device.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29543: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:25:33 PM

[up]x2 I think you're ignoring the fact that they already had, at the very least if you feel the need to discount Hawkeye, Black Widow and the NYPD- A giant green rage monster, a man in a super-advanced suit of powered armour, a Norse god, and America's biggest war hero.

The city wasn't going to be lost. And it was reckless to consider the nuclear option above all other possibilities. No one fucking does that, because it's stupid to sacrifice thousands of innocent lives when there are plenty of other options.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:26:07 PM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29544: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:28:22 PM

@Mukora It would've been a victory in that Loki and the aliens were prevented from conquering the entirety of Earth. To the WSC, the loss of Manhattan would've been an acceptable sacrifice for something that put a conclusive end to the invaders and protected the wellbeing of the entire planet.

@Hodor2 For all his faults Tony doesn't seem like the kind of person to be racist against metahumans or to be OK with that attitude among the members of whatever watchdog organization he'd head. Although it would be amusing just for the Bucky/Hei parallels.

edited 20th Mar '15 3:44:11 PM by AlleyOop

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29545: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:31:37 PM

Yeah, if it wasn't obvious, I don't agree with that. At all. But I doubt I'll convince anyone, so I'll drop it.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29546: Mar 20th 2015 at 3:38:52 PM

Well, that's kinda the point in Fury's refusal to launch the nuke. As far as he was concerned, sacrificing the entirety of Manhatten was such a horrendous act that they may as well risk letting the whole world fall rather than do that.

The WSC's position is that either they nuke Manhatten, ending the war with ONLY Manhatten being destroyed, or they don't do anything, in which case Manhatten is destroyed anyway AND the rest of the world is as well. They had no faith in the Avengers being able to close the portal on their own.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#29547: Mar 20th 2015 at 4:41:25 PM

Is there a single war in recorded history where one side reacted to losing territory with "let's turn the lost territory into a barren wasteland"? As opposed to "let's turn the territory that was always the enemy's into a barren wasteland"?

I mean, did occupied France try to blow themselves up for the good of Europe? Was that a thing that happened?

What I wanna know is why the hell the WSC didn't give the order for the nuke to be shot up into the portal, and Stark had to think of that himself.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#29548: Mar 20th 2015 at 4:43:56 PM

Isn't that what a Scorched Earth Policy is?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#29549: Mar 20th 2015 at 4:51:50 PM

Some rumors about the line-up change.

Potential/possible spoilers obvs.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#29550: Mar 20th 2015 at 4:58:12 PM

Interesting rumors.

I really hope Quicksilver doesn't die, but what interests me the most is Hulk's apparent disappearance.

Oh God! Natural light!

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