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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#29376: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:02:48 AM

I was counting villains. You just said superpowered. You didn't say they had to be good guys.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#29377: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:04:14 AM

Wasn't the Ant-Man in the first footage pretty much confirmed to be Hank Pym what with the suit being the exact one he's wearing in the LEGO sets? That scene is probably a flashback or Pym going in to try to rescue Hope/Scott after everything goes wrong.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#29378: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:44:50 AM

Personally, I think that Wasp probably should have showed up by now. I'm wondering what sort of role Whedon's original treatment for the Avengers gave her (he did plan for her to have a role, right?).

edited 17th Mar '15 5:45:01 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#29379: Mar 17th 2015 at 6:00:33 AM

[up] Yep. Which is why I'll resent Edgar Wright forever. If it wasn't for him holding onto Ant-Man characters to himself b/c of his pet project (even though he later abandoned it....yeah), we could've had Janet in the MCU by now!

I don't care how good Scott Pilgrim was, I'm so angry at Wright for that.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#29380: Mar 17th 2015 at 6:34:23 AM

I usually consider Tony to be bordering on the superpowered side, by the combination of his suit and his superior intellect. But yeah, I did forget Gamora and Nebula (on the other hand, Got G is a sort of inversion, as the only "normal" characters without some special powers of sort are in the minority).

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#29381: Mar 17th 2015 at 6:48:06 AM

[up][up]To be fair, Marvel really wanted Edgar Wright to do Ant Man, so they held on for as long as possible. They would at least be partially responsible for this situation.

And I'm pretty sure his Ant Man was always going to be Scott Lang anyway, so I don't think him making it sooner would have necessarily given the desired result.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#29382: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:07:30 AM

@Loads of pages ago about how mutants would cause a crisis of faith in the marvel universe.

Jesus isn't considered someone to pay attention to because he had superpowers, he's considered worth paying attention to because the life advice he gave was so very compelling and progressive. I'd argue when it comes to Jesus and The Prophet Muhammad it actually doesn't matter at all what their connection to God is, what they said possibly makes sense to you regardless of divine truth.

Anyway, ANT-MAN.

I'm still grumpy we're not having a Wasp film. Marvel are looking for new genres and new protagonists to tell stories about in their MCU, so yes a Hank Pym science fantasy film doesn't make sense, and a hiest film is stroke of genius, but choosing Scott Lang as the protagonists rather than Janet Van Dame is just a laughably strange choice. Janet is extremely well liked in the comics community and allows the MCU to have their first female superhero, their first superhero motivated by nothing but good intentions, and their first superhero is is an average joe.

Scott Lang on the other hand is brand new in that he's working class and on he wrong side of the law with a child? He's just a boring white version of Luke Cage! WHOWHO SMASH!

I've hypothesised before in this thread that the decision to go with Scott Lang as the lead and Wasp(ish) as the supporting character rather than the other way around came from Edger Wright's possible disinterest in telling stories about women.

Also, this film got delayed so blood many times. It was originally scheduled to be released in 2010! (okay the first delay was MARVEL's fault, after Iron Man scored and Incredible Hulk disappointed they wanted to have a bankable Iron Man 2 sequel instead, but even then the release date was only delayed to 2012 post Avengers, we could have had Hank Pym and Janet in Avengers 2!)

I am genuinely looking forward to it though. Hank Pym is a character which means a lot to me, and reading up on the technology they used to film this thing has gotten me really, really excited.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#29383: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:11:15 AM

Oh come on, we don't need to make up stuff about Edgar Wright's motivations. It didn't work out, so whatever. No need to start assuming bad things.

And people really like the new Scott Lang-based Ant Man comic and the character of Lang in general, so it's not like popularity is an issue.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#29385: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:15:41 AM

I'm upset (and hoping there's some kind of hidden twist) about the Janet van Dyne situation too. If only because it doesn't seem necessary.

Pym was already married once before he met Janet in the comics, so if you needed his wife to be dead for the sake of drama, you could have used Maria Trovaya.

Because really, Hope van Dyne being Wasp is just a bandaid on the poor handling of this situation, because Hope van Dyne isn't who people want to see being the Wasp. Wasp is one of those cases where people want to see Janet. Instead they took a fan-favorite character, and apparently not only aged her up so that we will never see her teaming up with the current and modern Avengers, but killed her off, just for the sake of creating more conflict.

And that's just hilarious, because when you're already changing the story around this much, would it have been so hard or so unforgivable to make Janet a contemporary of Lang's rather than Pym's? True, they wouldn't be able to portray her relationshp with Pym, but it's not Pym's movie, so they won't have much time to do that anyways. And with how... infamous... Jan and Hank's relationship is, it's honestly a can of worms they're better off not opening in the first place.

Because ultimately, even if Hope looks like Janet, acts like Janet, and becomes the Wasp like Janet, it begs the question of why didn't they just use Janet?

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#29386: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:20:47 AM

I actually am thinking that there'll be some sort of twist, because nothing I've heard says that she's outright dead.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#29387: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:42:19 AM

Also, Evangeline Lilly has said that Hope was raised by two superheroes instead of one, so Hank and Janet were confirmed Avengers back in the 60s, most likely.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#29388: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:47:17 AM

I reserve judgement until I have actually seen the movie.

And in any case, I love heist movies...I hope this will be a good one.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#29389: Mar 17th 2015 at 8:50:22 AM

And apparently they're using some interesting macro photography stuff for the shrinking scenes.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29390: Mar 17th 2015 at 9:01:04 AM

"Black Widow had her figure revealed"

...giggity.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#29391: Mar 17th 2015 at 9:02:05 AM

[up][up] Yep. Given what they're filming with, this film should be a must see in 3D.

My theory is that Janet got shrank into the micro verse and for some reason to do with relativity time runs slower there so she'll be able to pop back into reality at some point. Honestly though I'm hoping Hope will be such a good character we wont need Janet.

Though Hope's character seem to be pretty far removed from Janet. The trailer seemed to imply she was a serious individual, and she even had a gun.

edited 17th Mar '15 9:02:15 AM by Whowho

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#29392: Mar 17th 2015 at 9:10:09 AM

[up][up] I bet that pun was intentional on CBR's part.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29393: Mar 17th 2015 at 9:12:27 AM

Rumors I've heard involved Janet sacrificing her life for Hank's work so I'm hoping there won't be any Bionic Commando style twist going on.

@Black Widow Hot Toys Damn, that looks really good. None of the other figures really interest me, even if I might like the characters more.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#29394: Mar 17th 2015 at 9:15:50 AM

Some stuff about the red Daredevil suit.

He always wore a black mask that was tied in the back. We went through a lot of different versions and did a lot of R&D before settling on something. If you watch very closely, you'll see the outfit evolve subtly into what we call the black ninja suit. The mask changes. He starts wearing protective pads. Eventually it morphs into the classic suit, because he wouldn't be Daredevil without it. Getting there is part of the fun. The idea was to back the story up to the point before Matt is Daredevil. Then we could take him to a place where some version of the red suit works in a grounded world. The solution is very exciting and makes complete sense.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#29395: Mar 17th 2015 at 10:52:30 AM

My theory about Janet is that the accident happened to her left her permanently shrunk to the size of an insect. In an effort to save her, Hank developed the shrink/grow suit to bring her back to normal, but was unable to keep her at normal size for sizable lengths of time - giving an MCU reason/Mythology Gag for why Janet rarely goes giant sized.

While Janet made the best of her situation and became active as Wasp for a time, Hank couldn't reconcile with it guilt and eventually drove her away by wallowing in his self-pity. He and Wasp did do work for SHIELD under Peggy, possibly to pay for his continued research, but his obsessions broke their relationship fell apart - and now that he's outlived Janet, Hank only has regret left. Gives a bit of context to his attitude towards Scott that we've had implied so far.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29396: Mar 17th 2015 at 11:11:23 AM

Has anybody been cast to play Janet in Ant-Man? If she plays an important role in the story I would imagine they'd need someone to play her.

[up]Ooh, I kind of like that headcanon.

edited 17th Mar '15 3:08:26 PM by AlleyOop

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#29397: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:53:46 PM

I know this is a really old question now, but how we feel about Janet and Hank not being founding members of the Avengers?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29398: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:54:41 PM

I cry blood every day.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#29399: Mar 17th 2015 at 5:58:07 PM

As a non-comic fan of the MCU? I feel nothing about their not being included. And having seen Linkara's review of the Avengers very first issue? I feel they didn't really any add anything to their come together so them not being here is no real loss.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29400: Mar 17th 2015 at 6:04:18 PM

I don't think it's that big of a deal. Cap, Thor, and Iron Man were always the Trinity. Hulk, Ant-Man, and Wasp were never as big as them.

edited 17th Mar '15 6:04:43 PM by Kostya


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