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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29326: Mar 16th 2015 at 8:03:18 PM

It turns out the seven dwarves were so named because they each had super powers. They just chose not to use them in the story.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#29327: Mar 16th 2015 at 8:04:30 PM

America would probably be a better place if we had the sort of reflexive anti-patriotism that Britain and Germany supposedly do.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#29328: Mar 16th 2015 at 8:12:00 PM

There's nothing wrong with patriotism. Blind patriotism taken to the extreme, sure try not to go there. Nothing wrong with wanting to be an embodiment of ideals. Hence my original question of the UK having a "Captain America"-type named after and influenced by King Arthur. Modern day chivalrous Knight of the Round. King under the Mountain, awoke to help protect his own.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29329: Mar 16th 2015 at 8:22:11 PM

Patriotism is fine. It's nationalism that's the problematic sentiment, and often disguised as the former by its proponents.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29330: Mar 16th 2015 at 8:25:13 PM

That's generally my view too although patriotism can sometimes cause problems. In any event Captain America is generally meant to embody the virtues America strives towards.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#29331: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:13:11 PM

Well-intentioned as making Captain America a blue-eyed blond-haired guy was back in 1945, I do feel like maaaaaybe having him represent the entire country in 2015, where people are less inclined to immediately go "oh yeah he looks kinda like a Hilter youth" and more inclined to unironically go "YES WHITE MALE = AMERICA", is probably a bad idea.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29332: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:28:45 PM

Are we really gonna get... tumblry about this?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#29333: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:31:43 PM

You say that like Wackd has another frame of mind.

My various fanfics.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29335: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:48:08 PM

Okay.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29336: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:48:15 PM

Seeing as few people even on Tumblr read him through that lens, yeah, you might be reading too much into this.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#29337: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:48:50 PM

[up][up][up][up] A little rude, if you ask me. Wack'd, as far as I can tell, is just concerned about how people will react to this sort of thing. And well, I guess I kind of am too.

Don't get me wrong, Steve's usually a pretty stand-up guy, and I like to have him around because of that. That said, there are quite a lot of superheroes who are white guys - pretty much every main character in the MCU, for one thing - and, well, I think that might lead to some issues, issues that are both too numerous and too complicated for me to go into here.

edited 16th Mar '15 9:49:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29338: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:50:50 PM

"He's a pretty stand up guy! But we need to deal with his problematic whiteness."

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#29339: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:55:17 PM

[up][up][up]Well, if people on Tumblr think so I should to! After all, I'm merely here to parrot its views, because it is the only site on the Internet that thinks about the social ramifications of things, and they only do it to be annoying, so.

Never mind the fact that I highly doubt there's a massive overlap between the general audience and one Internet subcommunity. And, hell, I've seen folks argue, in light of the recent Falcon-as-Cap thing, that it's bad because Captain America should be white as to better represent the nation.

...dammit, I'm doing that thing where I argue that popular culture can and does have an influence on society again. Right. Stopping now. No more of that nonsense.

edited 16th Mar '15 9:56:43 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29340: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:56:57 PM

Of all the heroes, Steve Rogers is probably the hardest to justify in terms of Race Lift. I mean, you could have replaced him with Isaiah Bradley well enough, and don't get me wrong, I probably would've been fine with that change especially since it would be a great opportunity to bring one of our darker moments regarding race to light, but there's a reason Isaiah is such a completely different character from Steve Rogers.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#29341: Mar 16th 2015 at 9:59:29 PM

I'm not arguing, mind, that Steve Rogers, 1940s state-assisted superhero, shouldn't be a white guy. I'm arguing Captain America, symbol for the nation's ideals and all that bunk, shouldn't be a white guy.

edited 16th Mar '15 9:59:42 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#29342: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:08:41 PM

I'm... not quite sure I understand what you're asking for. Are saying you would have been fine with Steve Rogers as a character if he never used the Captain America name? Or are you trying to say you want Steve Rogers to retire and let Falcon take on the mantle? Either way I'm not so sure how that would work from a Watsonian perspective.

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29343: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:09:31 PM

I've become very tired of people smugly pretending that crying "Race Lifts for everybody!" on the Tvtropes MCU thread and elsewhere on the internet is somehow going to help end racial inequality.

"But representations in the media effect our perceptions of" Fuck you! No one in a position of power that can alter that kind of thing is going to read this. If you want to help society then go volunteer to tutor in a low income neighborhood or at a foodbank something.

[up][up]What you just wrote makes no fucking sense.

/Vent

edited 16th Mar '15 10:11:10 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#29344: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:10:07 PM

I know what you're trying to say, but that's a sentence that makes as much sense as "I know Kal-El should be an alien, but Superman shouldn't be an alien."

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29345: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:11:53 PM

If Steve dies in the movies, totally won't complain if they do the Captain Falcon thing.

But he needs to punch someone. And call it a Falcon punch.

Edit: I think you're all misinterpreting Wack'd anyway.

edited 16th Mar '15 10:12:54 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29346: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:15:14 PM

Falcon as Cap thing seems a little too new for it to happen in the MCU after Steve dies and they've already been building towards Buckky Cap. I would like Falcon to get more screen time. Maybe like a team up movie with Hawkeye or Thor or something.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#29347: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:20:44 PM

I've become very tired of people smugly pretending that crying "Race Lifts for everybody!" on the Tvtropes MCU thread and elsewhere on the internet is somehow going to help end racial inequality.

I sincerely doubt that anyone here is arguing this. This is just one small part of a much bigger problem.

"But representations in the media effect our perceptions of" Fuck you! No one in a position of power that can alter that kind of thing is going to read this. If you want to help society then go volunteer to tutor in a low income neighborhood or at a foodbank something.

To be honest, I always viewed talking about this sort of thing as less about changing the present (although that can happen, I suppose), and more about changing the future - that is, people who will be in a position of power in the future. I think it's happening, at least a little.

But if you want to dismiss an entire line of criticism because you believe it can't possibly help society, then be my guest.

Falcon as Cap thing seems a little too new for it to happen in the MCU after Steve dies and they've already been building towards Buckky Cap.

Have they really? He's not really in a position to take up the shield at this point, nor do I see him wanting to do so in the near future.

edited 16th Mar '15 10:22:05 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#29348: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:23:24 PM

I've become very tired of people smugly pretending that crying "Race Lifts for everybody!" on the Tvtropes MCU thread and elsewhere on the internet is somehow going to help end racial inequality.

It'll help alleviate some of the problems. Just because Doctor Strange was a white in the comics shouldn't mean he has to be a white guy in the movies. The movies play fast and loose with powers, backstory, general appearance etc. Why not race? A little more representation doesn't hurt.

What's your solution?

"But representations in the media effect our perceptions of" Fuck you! No one in a position of power that can alter that kind of thing is going to read this. If you want to help society then go volunteer to tutor in a low income neighborhood or at a foodbank something.

This is quite frankly the most moronic thing I've read today. Congratulations.

edited 16th Mar '15 10:25:22 PM by MadSkillz

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29349: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:24:00 PM

Yes they have really. Otherwise why give Bucky powers near identical to Steve's and casting Sebastian Stan for more movies than Chris Evans?

[up]Saying "Pedro Pascal could be a good Dr Strange" is vastly different from saying "A white guy can't adequately represent the values of America" Which is exactly what was written. As for how moronic you found it I'll admit I was... agitated when I typed it. That doesn't change that the self satisfied "I see a lots of whait gais and thats bad gais" style posts is repetitive, non-constructive and annoying.

edited 16th Mar '15 10:27:40 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
HisInfernalMajesty Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#29350: Mar 16th 2015 at 10:24:04 PM

I personally found Falcon cooler than Cap in Winter Soldier, having read very little about either. I read more DC than I do Marvel. I stand by the idea that if you want to make diverse heroes relevant, don't Race Lift a character. Bring in a diverse character like Falcon or Black Panther or somebody and give them the exposure they deserve - either as diverse heroes or as just cool heroes. They don't need to become Captain America to be more awesome. Just make them more awesome.

They need to be about 20% More Awesome.

(I'm also kind of pissed Black Panther's solo film was pushed back for Spiderman. I was really excited for something new)

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."

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