Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
America would probably be a better place if we had the sort of reflexive anti-patriotism that Britain and Germany supposedly do.
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.There's nothing wrong with patriotism. Blind patriotism taken to the extreme, sure try not to go there. Nothing wrong with wanting to be an embodiment of ideals. Hence my original question of the UK having a "Captain America"-type named after and influenced by King Arthur. Modern day chivalrous Knight of the Round. King under the Mountain, awoke to help protect his own.
Well-intentioned as making Captain America a blue-eyed blond-haired guy was back in 1945, I do feel like maaaaaybe having him represent the entire country in 2015, where people are less inclined to immediately go "oh yeah he looks kinda like a Hilter youth" and more inclined to unironically go "YES WHITE MALE = AMERICA", is probably a bad idea.
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.I honestly have no idea why I bother at this point.
I really just shouldn't.
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.Seeing as few people even on Tumblr read him through that lens, yeah, you might be reading too much into this.
![]()
![]()
![]()
A little rude, if you ask me. Wack'd, as far as I can tell, is just concerned about how people will react to this sort of thing. And well, I guess I kind of am too.
Don't get me wrong, Steve's usually a pretty stand-up guy, and I like to have him around because of that. That said, there are quite a lot of superheroes who are white guys - pretty much every main character in the MCU, for one thing - and, well, I think that might lead to some issues, issues that are both too numerous and too complicated for me to go into here.
edited 16th Mar '15 9:49:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!![]()
![]()
Well, if people on Tumblr think so I should to! After all, I'm merely here to parrot its views, because it is the only site on the Internet that thinks about the social ramifications of things, and they only do it to be annoying, so.
Never mind the fact that I highly doubt there's a massive overlap between the general audience and one Internet subcommunity. And, hell, I've seen folks argue, in light of the recent Falcon-as-Cap thing, that it's bad because Captain America should be white as to better represent the nation.
...dammit, I'm doing that thing where I argue that popular culture can and does have an influence on society again. Right. Stopping now. No more of that nonsense.
edited 16th Mar '15 9:56:43 PM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.Of all the heroes, Steve Rogers is probably the hardest to justify in terms of Race Lift. I mean, you could have replaced him with Isaiah Bradley well enough, and don't get me wrong, I probably would've been fine with that change especially since it would be a great opportunity to bring one of our darker moments regarding race to light, but there's a reason Isaiah is such a completely different character from Steve Rogers.
I'm not arguing, mind, that Steve Rogers, 1940s state-assisted superhero, shouldn't be a white guy. I'm arguing Captain America, symbol for the nation's ideals and all that bunk, shouldn't be a white guy.
edited 16th Mar '15 9:59:42 PM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.I'm... not quite sure I understand what you're asking for. Are saying you would have been fine with Steve Rogers as a character if he never used the Captain America name? Or are you trying to say you want Steve Rogers to retire and let Falcon take on the mantle? Either way I'm not so sure how that would work from a Watsonian perspective.
I've become very tired of people smugly pretending that crying "Race Lifts for everybody!" on the Tvtropes MCU thread and elsewhere on the internet is somehow going to help end racial inequality.
"But representations in the media effect our perceptions of" Fuck you! No one in a position of power that can alter that kind of thing is going to read this. If you want to help society then go volunteer to tutor in a low income neighborhood or at a foodbank something.
![]()
What you just wrote makes no fucking sense.
/Vent
edited 16th Mar '15 10:11:10 PM by Canid117
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des UrsinsI know what you're trying to say, but that's a sentence that makes as much sense as "I know Kal-El should be an alien, but Superman shouldn't be an alien."
My various fanfics.If Steve dies in the movies, totally won't complain if they do the Captain Falcon thing.
But he needs to punch someone. And call it a Falcon punch.
Edit: I think you're all misinterpreting Wack'd anyway.
edited 16th Mar '15 10:12:54 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersFalcon as Cap thing seems a little too new for it to happen in the MCU after Steve dies and they've already been building towards Buckky Cap. I would like Falcon to get more screen time. Maybe like a team up movie with Hawkeye or Thor or something.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des UrsinsI sincerely doubt that anyone here is arguing this. This is just one small part of a much bigger problem.
To be honest, I always viewed talking about this sort of thing as less about changing the present (although that can happen, I suppose), and more about changing the future - that is, people who will be in a position of power in the future. I think it's happening, at least a little.
But if you want to dismiss an entire line of criticism because you believe it can't possibly help society, then be my guest.
Have they really? He's not really in a position to take up the shield at this point, nor do I see him wanting to do so in the near future.
edited 16th Mar '15 10:22:05 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!It'll help alleviate some of the problems. Just because Doctor Strange was a white in the comics shouldn't mean he has to be a white guy in the movies. The movies play fast and loose with powers, backstory, general appearance etc. Why not race? A little more representation doesn't hurt.
What's your solution?
This is quite frankly the most moronic thing I've read today. Congratulations.
edited 16th Mar '15 10:25:22 PM by MadSkillz
Yes they have really. Otherwise why give Bucky powers near identical to Steve's and casting Sebastian Stan for more movies than Chris Evans?
Saying "Pedro Pascal could be a good Dr Strange" is vastly different from saying "A white guy can't adequately represent the values of America" Which is exactly what was written. As for how moronic you found it I'll admit I was... agitated when I typed it. That doesn't change that the self satisfied "I see a lots of whait gais and thats bad gais" style posts is repetitive, non-constructive and annoying.
edited 16th Mar '15 10:27:40 PM by Canid117
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des UrsinsI personally found Falcon cooler than Cap in Winter Soldier, having read very little about either. I read more DC than I do Marvel. I stand by the idea that if you want to make diverse heroes relevant, don't Race Lift a character. Bring in a diverse character like Falcon or Black Panther or somebody and give them the exposure they deserve - either as diverse heroes or as just cool heroes. They don't need to become Captain America to be more awesome. Just make them more awesome.
They need to be about 20% More Awesome.
(I'm also kind of pissed Black Panther's solo film was pushed back for Spiderman. I was really excited for something new)
"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."

It turns out the seven dwarves were so named because they each had super powers. They just chose not to use them in the story.