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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29101: Mar 12th 2015 at 1:58:30 PM

He's been Spider-man for ten years. He must have been able to find time at some point.

Anicomicgeek Burning MireGoji from Japan (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Burning MireGoji
#29102: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:07:04 PM

I've rarely touched the comics, so it bleeds together. Did Peter "die" and get reborn via cocoon with the organic web shooters, super sticking powers, and claw things when the evil android tried to kill Avengers tower and could talk to machines?

Yes and no: those are two separate (albeit similar) stories, he became a great spider, died, then came out of the spider with organic webshooters. Then, in The Other, he died again, got coccooned, then was reborn with those other powers.

Troper Wall * DeviantArt
zam Since: Jun, 2009
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#29104: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:12:06 PM

[up][up]Because Peter Parker needs to be a perpetually poor sadsack.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29105: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:16:57 PM

He was doing okay until Quesada undid the marriage.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#29106: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:17:54 PM

No smoking in the MCU films from now on. Not a big deal since I can't remember anyone ever smoking in any of the previous films.

cutewithoutthe Góðberit Norðling Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Góðberit Norðling
#29107: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:23:09 PM

Well, it managed what most comic book adaptation fail to do, touching a theme which is relevant for us and discussing it in a very mature manner.

You're saying about the movie that generalized one side of the debate into, literally, nazis.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#29108: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:26:43 PM

Into, literally, Neo-Fascists. Which isn't exactly that far off from some people involved in the debate about information and control of the media.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#29109: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:27:01 PM

If they were literally Nazis, they wouldn't have taken in non-Aryans like Sitwell. Despite being megalomaniacal, guys like Pierce were still played sympathetically and with reasons for why they sought extreme measures.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29110: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:34:41 PM

Hydra isn't a Nazi organization it's a mixture of Fascism and Terrorism. There's a difference.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#29111: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:37:02 PM

But didn't Hydra start as a branch of the Nazis or something? And, seriously now, are we really trying to argue that the movies depict Hydra sympathetically at all? Even if they aren't technically Nazis, they're still a group of irredeemably evil villains.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#29112: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:38:27 PM

About Spider-Man and web-shooters. At some point in recentish comics Peter Parker actually joined a major technological company and, indeed, patented a few inventions of his own. Including the Web-Shotters, I believe.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#29113: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:38:45 PM

[up][up][up] HYRDA is literally something that started out as a Nazi organization in the MCU though? Like, what's there to debate about that?

edited 12th Mar '15 2:39:22 PM by higherbrainpattern

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#29114: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:39:05 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, I never thought Hydra was portrayed sympathetically. :/

edited 12th Mar '15 2:39:27 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#29115: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:46:48 PM

I don't think anyone said that they're sympathetic, just that if we're going off what we saw in the movies then it looks like they'd moved away from at least some aspects of Nazism.

That doesn't make them any more redeemable it just makes them Pragmatic Villains.

edited 12th Mar '15 2:47:19 PM by comicwriter

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#29116: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:46:50 PM

I don't mean that Hydra as an organization was portrayed sympathetically. Just that its members were. Pierce is a guy who Nick Fury laments as someone he would have taken a bullet for, and it's clear others were suckered in the same way he was, by viewing the world as too dangerous to be left uncontrolled 24/7. Nick Fury showed himself to be a good guy, but he had some appreciation for idea's that turned out be Hydra's, and it must mean a lot that Pierce called Fury "the most ruthless person I've ever met" when Pierce himself has ordered a missile strike on American soil.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29117: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:46:57 PM

It started out as a Nazi division but they dropped the Aryan Supremacy rhetoric. They're just a Fascist organization now.

edited 12th Mar '15 2:48:01 PM by Kostya

CorrTerek The Permanently Confused from The Bland Line Since: Jul, 2009
The Permanently Confused
#29118: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:50:18 PM

Yeah, I think that Hydra split from Nazism right about the time they murdered all the Nazis who were overseeing Red Skull's project.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#29119: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:55:49 PM

Pleased Greeks and Trojans? I like that one.

To be honest, I don't see much of a difference between killing people because they have the wrong religion or race or sexual orientation or political opinion and killing them because they just don't happen to agree with you and you perceive them as possible danger. In both cases you kill because your victims are somehow "wrong" in your eyes...only the definition of why they are "wrong" changes slightly.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#29120: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:56:02 PM

Okay, but the original point here is that the "moral debate" was generalized into "what Captain America believes is right and what Hydra believes is wrong!" The movie never did anything to present the viewpoints otherwise, and therefore the movie has no more or less depth than any other movie depicting a superhero punching a supervillain.

edited 12th Mar '15 2:56:36 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#29121: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:59:22 PM

The Dark Knight had a villain who was totally evil and a hero who all his actions were claimed as the right thing to do and yet it's by no means shallow.

edited 12th Mar '15 2:59:40 PM by Tuckerscreator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#29122: Mar 12th 2015 at 2:59:31 PM

Fury and Hill didn't seem to have a problem with project Insight and I doubt every single person working on it was Hydra. Just because Hydra was behind it doesn't mean tons of good people weren't working on it and supporting it.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#29123: Mar 12th 2015 at 3:07:23 PM

[up][up]The Dark Knight was more of a psychological exploration than a moral debate. The Dark Knight was about why heroes are heroes and villains are villains. Winter Soldier wasn't as concerned with exploring why Cap is so heroic and Hydra is so evil, it was more worried about bringing Cap from one action-packed set piece to the next and giving him plenty of bad guys to fight. Compare Harvey Dent to Bucky. One of them had a complex reason for turning evil. The other was brainwashed and spends most of the movie mute. There's no comparison, really.

And for the record, I don't think Winter Solider is "shallow." I just don't think it has more depth than any of the other MCU movies (Even GotG had its serious moments mixed in there).

edited 12th Mar '15 3:15:33 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#29124: Mar 12th 2015 at 3:08:30 PM

You're right, Bucky is way cooler.

My various fanfics.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#29125: Mar 12th 2015 at 3:10:29 PM

[up][up]~~Joker blows up buildings and kills people for shits and giggles~

Ah, yes. Such psychological exploration. Much moral complexity.

edited 12th Mar '15 3:11:06 PM by higherbrainpattern


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