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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28701: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:06:44 AM

Got to be introducing new characters.

Also, Drax's revenge plot is relevant if Moondragon shows up and is his daughter.

Gamora can get more effort on her plot if Nebula shows up. Or anything else because we know she had a shitty childhood but it wasn't really elaborated on. Maybe (hopefully) if Phyla-Vell shows up, she doesn't like Gamora because of her bloody past. Maybe Gamora sympathizes with Moondragon for being separated from her family and raised by someone else ("Yeah but I was raised by awesome people who worshiped me as a god and you were raised by a guy with a weird chin. There's a difference in our situations." "I don't like you anymore."). Her interactions were mostly with Peter in the movie so maybe she gets a new dynamic with another one of the guardians. They can have something remind her of her training from hell. Any number of things can be used to flesh out Gamora more.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:07:09 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#28702: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:08:58 AM

@Ultron and the Twins: We don't know that Ultron wants to wipe out all life. In fact, considering most of the plot summaries we've been given, he probably wants to save most people, or at least some. His mission is to keep the Earth safe by eliminating the most dangerous people, hence him going after the Avengers.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are joining him for the reason he wants to destroy the Avengers... they, like him, want to change the status quo. They see the need for radical change before things can get better, and from all descriptions they have enough of a beef with the Avengers that they would join him to destroy them.

As for why Ultron needs them, there could be any number of reasons. Companionship, sadistic desire to destroy the Avengers from the inside that Scarlet Witch could do better than anyone, need for validation that he isn't the only one that thinks his ideas are right. Part of what makes Ultron Ultron is that he isn't dictated solely by logic. He has emotions, twisted ones maybe, but they're still there and they still have a hold on his actions.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:10:01 AM by Khfan429

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#28703: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:11:35 AM

[up][up]This. You don't need just the old team to focus on the characters. New characters means more chances for interactions.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:15:03 AM by LordofLore

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#28704: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:12:32 AM

[up][up][up]That sounds like really good example of bringing in new characters that help flesh out the old characters. That's exactly the kind of stuff GotG 2 needs to do.

[up][up]I'm guessing Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are told Ultron doesn't want to wipe out all life, but, come on, let's be honest here, he totally wants to wipe out all life. That's what he does. It's his whole shtick. Maybe he'll need Scarlet Witch's powers for something or other, I don't know.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:12:44 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28705: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:13:05 AM

Why are Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in this movie again? It kinda feels like they're just here for no other reason than that they're iconic Avengers characters.

Whedon's already said he needed someone to have Ultron talk to, otherwise he's just monologuing and explaining his plans to nobody.

And it's pretty easy to see why he wants them. His plan is to tarnish the Avengers' reputation and rip them apart "from the inside", and Scarlet Witch's mental powers are obviously very useful for that.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#28706: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:17:56 AM

I really do hope that Ultron does, in fact, have plans that need to be thwarted beyond "get rid of the Avengers". One of the most frequent arguments we hear by in-universe civilians against supers is that they eventually start spending more time on grudge matches than on actually protecting people, or that people only need to be protected because the villain is doing bad shit to draw out the hero. And sometimes they even have a point!

I mean, granted, it's as good a thing to lead into Civil War as any, but at the same time it is my least favorite flavor of superhero story and it'd suck if Age of Ultron had to stoop to that just so that there can be backstory for another movie down the line.

I mean, if you think about it, that's literally the same problem Iron Man 2 had—Tony's pretty much only saving his own hide and the hides of the people being killed by the folks trying to kill him, all for the purposes of setting up another movie.

I guess you could argue the same for The Incredible Hulk, but at least there Banner tries to do the obvious thing and stand down.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:19:18 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#28707: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:18:06 AM

Though so far it does look like Quicksilver's mostly going to be the "muscle."

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#28708: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:19:22 AM

I figured they included them so Cap could form the second team at the end of this movie.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28709: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:26:52 AM

[up]There's that component too.

Also in-story they got their powers from Loki's scepter, which according to the marketing, is also what gives Ultron sentience. He may be interested in studying them if they all share a common source.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#28710: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:30:46 AM

[up][up]Assuming Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver are all on Cap's side for Civil War, it is my fondest hope that at some point Tony calls them "Cap's team of kooks" or something similar. tongue

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28712: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:36:44 AM

I really do hope that Ultron does, in fact, have plans that need to be thwarted beyond "get rid of the Avengers". One of the most frequent arguments we hear by in-universe civilians against supers is that they eventually start spending more time on grudge matches than on actually protecting people, or that people only need to be protected because the villain is doing bad shit to draw out the hero. And sometimes they even have a point!

Don't the trailers pretty broadly hint his plan is Kill All Humans? Getting rid of the Avengers first just seems like his personal grudge but also has the pragmatic purpose of making sure there's nobody to stop him.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#28713: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:37:45 AM

On the whole "Should Rhodey die?" thing, I personally think no one needs to die, and that just the mistake of releasing Ultron out into the world should be enough to send Tony into whatever you want him to do in Civil War.

Also, I don't think Rhodey should be given immunity for being black. However, I do think he should be given immunity for being a superhero. He's the goddamn War Machine. There's no way you can just replace the War Machine. I'd rather kill Coulson off again than strip the MCU of the War Machine.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:38:14 AM by Watchtower

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#28714: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:39:45 AM

[up][up][up]Oh my god that's adorable

Also, do I want Moondragon and Phyla-Vell to hook up before the events of the movie, or to gradually get together over the course of it? (Assuming they're both in GOTG 2, which they might not be.) I'm not sure which would be more fun to watch.

Assuming Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver are all on Cap's side for Civil War, it is my fondest hope that at some point Tony calls them "Cap's team of kooks" or something similar.
I can totally imagine the words "Cap's Kooky Quartet" leaving Tony's lips.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:41:44 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#28715: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:41:02 AM

[up][up]What's so interesting about War Machine? (Honest Question).

edited 7th Mar '15 10:41:13 AM by Swanpride

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#28716: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:43:07 AM

[up][up][up][up] That's what I thought. Though why he'd stop at just humans I don't know. If he had a motivation like the Dragons of Earth from X/1999 we might have something here.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:45:20 AM by AlleyOop

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#28717: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:50:21 AM

[up][up][up]The problem is, it likely won't be a quartet. If nobody else, Falcon's pretty much guaranteed to be on Cap's side as well.

Then again, he could say "Cap and his Kooky Quartet" and still have it work.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28718: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:53:14 AM

@Swanpride Some people think it's a bad idea. This conversation is just going in circles at this point.

I'm sure there will be a Kooky Quartet mythology gag at some point in AOE even if it isn't actually called that. They have said Hawkeye will have longer interactions with them than the other Avengers.

edited 7th Mar '15 11:19:11 AM by comicwriter

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#28719: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:54:28 AM

...Ok, now I want to see Cap, the Falcon, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch perform as a barbershop quartet.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#28720: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:54:42 AM

[up][up]It's a legitimate question. Couldn't you put someone else with military connections in the War Machine suit? It's not like he built it himself.

edited 7th Mar '15 10:55:21 AM by Khfan429

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28721: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:58:48 AM

No at this point it's just continuing to bend over backwards trying to come up with a reason why it's okay to kill him off.

[up][up]Well his last barbershop quartet is dead...

edited 7th Mar '15 10:59:20 AM by comicwriter

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#28722: Mar 7th 2015 at 10:59:39 AM

Ultron almost always wants to wipe out all humans.

(Please don't ask why Ultron looks like Janet in the last picturenote )

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#28723: Mar 7th 2015 at 11:00:58 AM

[up][up]Even if it was, that doesn't give you opening to tell someone to stop. As it stands, it was presented as an honest question, least that could be done is providing an answer.

edited 7th Mar '15 11:01:24 AM by Khfan429

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#28724: Mar 7th 2015 at 11:03:23 AM

It's the poster in question just repeatedly saying the same thing over and over, responding to everyone who expresses distaste for the idea of killing Fury or War Machine and then trying to say "But okay he's boring" or "It has nothing to do with race". Some people clearly don't like the idea while others do. At this point it's all in one stupid loop going around in circles.

[up][up]I'm laughing so hard at his first words are basically "Fuck you, dad."

edited 7th Mar '15 11:04:03 AM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28725: Mar 7th 2015 at 11:07:25 AM

Ultron is right. We have fantasized about the robot apocalypse.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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