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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
In the case of foreign cultures, it doesn't help that most writers in mass media do seem to assume all Asians and all Latin Americans, all Africans, are part of a single whole. Which we aren't; the standard Token Latino is either a Mexican, a Puerto Rican, or more often than not, a bad Spainxico pastiche. Hollywood and comics like putting one of those in each team (where they almost never are the leader, by the way), call it a day, and then pat themselves on the back over a well done job, which is why these 'equality' crusades usually end up being a PR joke. Good luck trying to make them understand a Mexican is even more different from an Argentinean or Bolivian (if they even know what these are) than US citizens are from Canadians.
Also, good luck making them understand Latin Americans almost never use 'Jamie' (and English name) or 'Anya' (a Russian name) as their names, instead of 'Jaime' and 'Ana'. But hey, at long as it sounds foreign, right?
Another thing is, the Token 'Latino' will usually be an US resident anyway; most likely a But Not Too Foreign halfblood (a Trope that usually is very much of a compromise copout to start with, although to be honest it's even more shameless in Japanese media, where they can explain 10,000 blue eyed blondes with fully Japanese names by saying they had a single English grandfather). You know what? I'm glad if the immigrants get any recognition beyond being made to wash floors over scraps before being deported, but speaking as someone who hasn't ever been in the US, you still are telling me stories about people already integrated in the US community, so it's not like you'll connect that much more with those who remain in foreign ground even if you slap Green Lantern with the name Haroldo Jordan. No wait, he'll still be Hal, because copyrighting a wholly new name is an extra cost, but whatever. Here from Venezuela, I can connect with Classic Hal as much as I can connect with Mexican Hal who is an USA resident anyway, and guess what? In the former's case, I at least had the knowledge experience and familiarity from previous media.
edited 1st Mar '15 12:09:23 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
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Stuff which happened in the past still has the advantage that most people haven't experienced it (and even then people tend to pick this kind of stuff apart, to know this one just has to read the episode discussions for Agent Carter). Just look what happens when writers try to write about computer or science to the best of their ability, someone always complains about it being not correct in one way or another. And those are things in which people are not invested in.
Take the "The Colour Purple". A ton of research went into the book and the movie. They had experts on set. And what happened? There were complains that the clothes of the characters looked "too rich". Let's imagine the book was written by a white guy instead of a black woman. He most likely would have gotten ripped apart.
Granted, this is an extreme example. And you can certainly as a straight male white writers work on writing compelling diverse characters. But I can understand why those writers would feel more comfortable in a mind-set they know. To me the only way to more diversity in the media is more diversity in the people who work in the media.
edited 1st Mar '15 12:09:53 PM by Swanpride
It just occured to me but I don't think Carol and Lord Mar-vell had much if any interaction.
A bit of a waste, that.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersNova, Thanos, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the rest of the universe(minus Earth)made pretty quick work of him and his servants before the Cancerverse could become a problem for Earth since Thanos brought Death to a universe that hadn't seen her for decades. I would love it if Mar-Vell showed up in Secret Wars if only because he was the nicest Kree ever(when even Thanos sees you as a worthy rival you're pretty great)and would probably enjoy meeting his old friends again(also Carol telling him she's the new Captain Marvel is a moment that has to happen).
Marvel heroes are pretty much all from the US which is kind of sad. I think they even had to come up with a whole team of European superheroes once since no one could come up with a list of 10 names that weren't Captain Britain for a meeting between different teams.
edited 1st Mar '15 12:22:12 PM by LordofLore
If the super population density is anything like the US, there should be multiple teams in major cities.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
They attempted that with Avengers: The Initiative but none of the characters ever really caught on.
Scarlet Spider actually dealt with that a bit by bringing up the fact that criminals could operate undeterred in places like Houston because 99 percent of the heroes in the Marvel Universe seem to exclusively live in New York for some reason.
Basically this. Also, it's not as though every non-white Marvel hero is living in a foreign country anyway. There are a fair number of non-white characters who are either Americans or primarily live and work in America.
edited 1st Mar '15 12:25:03 PM by comicwriter
Ease of teamups. There have been characters that have started out somewhere else or tried to move somewhere else only to gravitate back to New York.
She-Hulk started out in Las Angeles but moved to New York after her first solo got cancelled.
Squirrel Girl also started out in Las Angeles but moved to New York and then moved to Michigan and then moved back to New York.
Venom was moved to San Francisco for an arc or two, had a supporting cast set up, but then was moved back to New York so he could start interacting with Spider-Man again.
Take what you can get, I guess.
edited 1st Mar '15 12:34:50 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersKamala Khan is how it SHOULD be done - you don't try and pretend that this is the original Ms Marvel (only Muslim), it's clearly a new character and her culture and background are clearly important to her, and shape her views without being shoved down your throats the whole time - no 'Oh my Allah' or 'By the beard of the Prophet!' nonsense (which would get VERY silly, fast.) The writer is herself Muslim so does know what she's talking about at least.
Or do what Paul Cornell did when he created Faiza Hussain, on the entirely logical basis that Muslims are (by reasonable human beings) accepted part of British culture and having a team of mighty whities would be silly. He on the other hand is NOT Muslim so he contacted some friends who were and got them to check his work as it went on.
Some characters you can change the race without altering the character fundamentally, personally as long as the Hulk stays green (or mayyybe grey) I am not fussed what colour Bruce Banner is - though I like the Ruffalo version and would see him in a Hulk solo if it ever got made. The Steve Rogers Captain America HAS to be white though - because it would not ring true for a 1940s society to make a black person the personification of their values and ideals. Values Dissonance exists for a reason.
In the case of Strange, white is not essential, but I think Strange and I picture him with that 'tache of his, so male he really ought to be.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."I'm reminded of the Blue Marvel's backstory, wherein he was another one of Marvel's riffs on Superman but his helmet was broken during a fight and the public found out he was black and President Kennedy asked Blue Marvel to retire because people were not comfortable being saved by a super black guy apparently?
Just goes to show that the marvel public has always been jerks.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
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They also have some of the best female characters Marvel has created probably because there was next to no gender bias in the books as Joss Whedon(who wrote some of them for a time)pointed out in an interview:
edited 1st Mar '15 12:42:45 PM by LordofLore
That's why the X-men franchise frustrates me and has from day one. I mean, I am happy for the fans who enjoy it, and I certainly won't begrudge them their fun....but I nevertheless wait for the day the current run is over and they do a reboot, hopefully utilizing all the diversity they have instead of making it another round of the Wolverine show (honestly, what is even so great about the character? His backstory is boring, his superpower is lame, and the brooding somewhat antihero is soooo overdone). Wouldn't it be great to have a X-men movie series in which every movie has another X-men as main character? X-Men: Rogue, X-Men: Storm, X-Men: "Beast", X-Men "insert character here".
Which is what they seem to be doing, what with Luke Cage, Black Panther, Daredevil if you want to be charitable.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Most of those guys are just on TV and Black Panther (as we were discussing earlier) has been delayed a year for another white guy. That's my point. They have the power to diversify their universe (which would answer the central complaint Rodriguez brought up about using original minorities rather than racebending) but they've been fumbling the ball so far. Black Panther is absolutely historic but one movie out of 14 is not anything to brag about.
edited 1st Mar '15 1:07:09 PM by comicwriter
For what it's worth, he originally auditioned for Drax. And he wanted to play Black Panther (and did voice him in the animated series) but they cast Chadwick Boseman instead.
has been delayed a year for another white guy
Spider-Man took priority because he's freaking Spider-Man, the most box-office busting superhero in the world, set against a guy who hasn't ever had a certified movie hit to his name regardless of any racial concerns or lack thereof; not because he's a white part of a white conspiracy to stall diversity movies down. And he's even been rumored to be race lifted or made Miles anyway, so so far that's a groundless complain anyway.
edited 1st Mar '15 1:07:59 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
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I believe this is the truth. Black Panther has been delayed because holy shit you guys it's Spider-Man.
I also don't think tv is any less prestigious than movies, particularly considering the two examples in question (Daredevil and Luke Cage) have been described for some time as more suited to television.
edited 1st Mar '15 1:10:48 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Bro, this thread went through a massive multi-page war about why it absolutely should not be Miles (and some going so far as to posit evidence as to why it will absolutely not be him) and now we've spent the majority of today discussing the idea that characters should not be racebent because it's mean to white actors and insulting to minorities.
Now it's suddenly "Hold on now Marvel is doing the right thing because they may POSSIBLY have a black or other minority actor playing Spider-Man".
This whole thing comes across like moving the goal post. "Racebending happens because most superhero movies are lacking in diversity." "False, racebending is bad because that attention should be paid to existing minority heroes!" "Okay but Marvel isn't exactly doing great with its existing minority properties." "Yeah but it's okay because Spider-Man might get racebent!"
edited 1st Mar '15 1:13:32 PM by comicwriter

Some writers can take a year to prepare for writing a book(see for instance Kieron Gillen who left his Iron Man book early to prepare for writing Darth Vader which started this year while also working on his own book and other things).
edited 1st Mar '15 12:05:09 PM by LordofLore