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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27426: Feb 19th 2015 at 4:37:50 PM

[up][up] Last time I checked I could count the female lead shows by Marvel and DC on one hand, the ones which were actually good on one finger (relatively speaking...Wonder Woman didn't really age all that well), and none of them addressed female issues the way Agent Carter does. Sure, other TV show did it with varying success. But currently it is about Marvel and DC finally catching up with the rest of the world at the very least.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#27428: Feb 19th 2015 at 4:44:56 PM

....man, why is that whenever people talks about social issues as portrayed in the media, someone inevitably mentions tumblr? Tumblr didn't invent sociological concepts that have been around for a long time. Grr, argh, those terrible social justice warriors and their totally legitimate concerns regarding the lack of Agent Carter addressing 40s racism.

Man, those terrible, terrible SJWs. How dare they.

edited 19th Feb '15 4:54:08 PM by higherbrainpattern

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27430: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:11:09 PM

And it's not like anyone is saying "BURN IT! BOYCOTT THE SHOW!" Just that it's an extremely enjoyable program that could stand to do better in that specific area.

Also the problem I have with "It's great for women" is which women? If it focuses exclusively on white women doesn't that kind of make it understandable that women of color would be peeved about being thrown under the bus by the people blabbering about how great the show is for women and women's issues?

edited 19th Feb '15 5:12:37 PM by comicwriter

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#27431: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:14:52 PM

[up][up]Well, you can't sequester different genres or companies away from broader cultural conversations. It just doesn't work. The lack of intersectuality is a far-reaching problem of which Agent Carter is, for better or worse, a symptom.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#27432: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:22:07 PM

And I think it kinda didn't help matters that like Agents of Shield they decided to have the first villain of the show be a black guy.

I'm pretty sure the first villain was that doctor lady that Raina later let the fire dude kill and that Deathlok was the victim in the first episode, not the villain, then later explicitly a hero and was the guy who took down the first season's villain.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27433: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:22:59 PM

Yes but that all comes later. The pilot episode is still them trying to stop a rampaging black guy.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#27435: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:25:27 PM

Mike is definitely the Villain of the Week of the first episode. He's an obvious Anti-Villain, but he's still quite blatantly the antagonist of the plot - the doctor, in that case, is the Man Behind the Man.

The first episode also plays him with a lot of tropes and traits typically associated with black characters, but one step at a time.

edited 19th Feb '15 5:28:23 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27436: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:25:32 PM

Oy vey guys, it was just an example to parallel what was happening with Agent Carter since they both got criticism over that specific aspect. Yes, I'm aware they don't match up perfectly.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#27437: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:32:39 PM

Yes but that all comes later. The pilot episode is still them trying to stop a rampaging black guy.

I suggest you rewatch the pilot episode. The pilot episode was about a black guy who got experimented upon by a villainous doctor because he was too poor support his kid and he wanted to do his best for his kid. Said experimentations caused him to first become a hero then start to go mad, which was all the while explicitly presented as a side effect of the experimentation. Heck, we even had a scene between him and the doctor lady where she lied to him and manipulated him. The first episode did nothing but present him as a victim and the heroes treated him as such, too, especially in their refusal to kill him.

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#27438: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:33:43 PM

"Man, I can only imagine what watching The First Avenger must've felt like, knowing that Marvel completely fabricated a WWII faction and an alien superweapon."

There is a difference between fudging history to make your superhero work and ignoring that segregation was a thing so that you can fill your black people quota.

The fact that there aren't any major black characters is indeed the result of racism but its not because the showrunners are racist. It's because almost all the characters in the show are.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27439: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:37:31 PM

[up]And all people are saying is that if that's the case then they'd at least appreciate it brought up. It's not that there's no minorities it's that there's virtually no minorities OR acknowledgement of the types of societal issues that are keeping them out of the show.

If the argument is there's no minority characters because of segregation then we could at least get a damn acknowledgement that segregation is a thing that is happening in-universe.

I mean Mad Men is set in the 50's and features a mostly-white cast but at least depicts societal prejudices accurately and goes to great lengths to show why you aren't likely to see any black, Asian, or Hispanic people palling around with Don Draper and his buddies.

edited 19th Feb '15 5:42:31 PM by comicwriter

CorrTerek The Permanently Confused from The Bland Line Since: Jul, 2009
The Permanently Confused
#27440: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:43:16 PM

How many seasons has Mad Men been running?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27441: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:44:51 PM

A number of years but the attempts at making it clear the 50's were not the idealized place Boomers remember were there from the beginning.

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#27442: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:59:09 PM

How many of those acknowledgments came in the first 8 episodes?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#27444: Feb 19th 2015 at 6:33:21 PM

The blatantly horrible nature of being a non-white person in 1940's America probably wouldn't get past the censors if you tried to accurately portray it on prime time television.

The show still needs more non-white people anyway, even if they can't fully portray racial issues of the times with amazing nuance. Minority actors need work.

edited 19th Feb '15 6:33:46 PM by Ekuran

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#27445: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:00:03 PM

Wouldn't it be an awesome twist if Maria Hill was HYDRA all along? And with her working for Stark now, she's in the perfect position to steal Stark armor blueprints. wild mass guessIron Man 4: Iron Warswild mass guess

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#27446: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:02:12 PM

TEH AUDIENCE WILL BE SO SURPRISED BY THE EXACT SAME PLOT TWIST FROM THE LAST MOVIE!!!

MWAHAHAHAHA!!! MAD GENIUSES WE ARE!!!!

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#27447: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:03:49 PM

The twist was that HYDRA was still around. Now, it's just a rehash of the season 1 finale of Ao S. And it'll be more shocking because more people will see it happening.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#27448: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:04:25 PM

If Hydra was smart they might have actually done that. Then if the takeover fails you still have some agents on the inside feeding you information.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#27449: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:06:46 PM

One of the many reasons why I've been wanting Fantastic Four in the MCU is to do the "It's a HYDRA agent!" twist, but with Skrulls.

....Yes, I was one of the people who liked Secret Invasion.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27450: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:06:57 PM

HYDRA probably had some people off the books that weren't exposed, but what are they gonna do now that SHIELD is gone? Infiltrate the world of fast food?


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