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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27351: Feb 18th 2015 at 6:49:08 PM

If I had to offer one criticism of Agent Carter, it's that pretty much everyone is white. In New York city.

I mean, there are background characters that aren't white, and they changed one of the Howling Commandoes to be black, but they don't really do much (speaking of which, why weren't Morita and Jones in that one? Or any of the original Commandoes besides Dugan, for that matter? Could they not get the actors?).

Still, the show's been really good so far, and I hope it gets another season, where maybe it can address any problems I might have with it.

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27352: Feb 18th 2015 at 6:50:12 PM

The absence of Jones and Morita really stood out to me. I know the actor who played Gabe Jones just did a stint on Empire so maybe it was scheduling conflicts?

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#27353: Feb 18th 2015 at 6:54:51 PM

Cue traditional Executive Whining on SEE SEE FEMALE-LED SUPERHERO RELATED FARE DOESN'T SELL SEE SEE?

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#27354: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:03:44 PM

For me, it's not just the absence of the other Commandos besides Dugan that got me. It's the blatant unapologetic use of Suspiciously Similar Substitute. Would it be so hard to put in an explanation for why there's an extra three Howling Commandos we've never seen before, and where the others that we did see before are gone?

Simple idea: the Howling Commandos expanded after the war to account for the loss of Steve and Bucky, and the other original members are busy on other missions. Would've taken two seconds and cleared up a lot of confusion. Instead it just feels like they're trying to sweep it under the rug and hope we don't notice.

edited 18th Feb '15 7:08:46 PM by Khfan429

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#27355: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:23:32 PM

If I had to offer one criticism of Agent Carter, it's that pretty much everyone is white. In New York city.
If I had to hazard a guess, ABC was like "well, we're already tackling sexism, adding stuff on top of that would be too political."

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#27356: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:28:22 PM

Yeah, that's a big problem. I feel like Agents of SHIELD is the most diverse thing in the MCU and even it has some pretty big problems with its black male characters.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#27357: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:33:24 PM

Was New York really that racially diverse in the 40s? I thought that started later.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27358: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:37:13 PM

I always just remember that scene from Psych "Do you think black people hadn't been invented yet?"

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#27359: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:41:48 PM

[up][up]Wikipedia says that NYC around 1950 was about 9.4% black, compared to its current 25%. Even if the show was trying for strict historical accuracy its numbers would be paltry.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27360: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:43:47 PM

If I had to hazard a guess, ABC was like "well, we're already tackling sexism, adding stuff on top of that would be too political."

That was my thought as well. I think they also might have considered...well, just what are Peggy's views on the subject?

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27361: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:44:04 PM

Simple idea: the Howling Commandos expanded after the war to account for the loss of Steve and Bucky, and the other original members are busy on other missions. Would've taken two seconds and cleared up a lot of confusion. Instead it just feels like they're trying to sweep it under the rug and hope we don't notice.

It was especially noticeable because they didn't really try too hard to explain the new members or give them any real characterization. It's like they wrote the episode on the assumption they'd get Gabe and the others back and when that didn't happen they just arbitrarily gave their parts to a couple of new guys and acted like they'd always been part of the team.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#27362: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:46:16 PM

[up] Sounds about right. For what it's worthy, the Suspiciously Similar Substitute thing wasn't just done with the nonwhite members- they also had Pinky Pinkerton standing in for James Montgomery Falsworth- kind of a weird Composite Character/ Decomposite Character thing going on with those two.

edited 18th Feb '15 7:46:32 PM by Hodor2

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#27363: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:49:19 PM

I imagine they just couldn't get the actors from First Avenger, save Neal Mc Donough.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#27365: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:53:01 PM

They could have done The Other Darrin if they really wanted to. Aside from Dugan none of the Commandos really stick out in my mind appearance wise and it's been years since The First Avenger. Most people probably wouldn't even notice unless it was pointed out to them.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#27366: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:58:27 PM

Those same people probably just assumed the new Howling Commandos were the same characters as in First Avenger.

"Oh, hey, that's the asian one. And the black one!"

edited 18th Feb '15 7:58:39 PM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#27367: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:00:59 PM

Which is why I'm confused by their decision to not do that. Casual fans wouldn't even notice and I can't imagine the hardcore fans would care since the Commandos didn't get much development anyway.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27368: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:02:27 PM

[up] "The Asian one" was actually an SSR agent. Agent Li, I think?

Oh God! Natural light!
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#27369: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:02:30 PM

They wanted to bring in new characters from the comics? or they thought the actors for the original characters would have been insulted? I dunno.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#27370: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:06:01 PM

[up][up]According to our character page the Asian member is Jim Morita.

edit: Wait a minute, he's Japanese. What? I thought he was Chinese. That would make more sense.

edited 18th Feb '15 8:06:38 PM by Kostya

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27372: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:13:04 PM

[up] I was referring to the agent who was in Agent Carter, not the First Avenger.

Oh God! Natural light!
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#27373: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:33:36 PM

It's probably just a matter of scheduling. Kenneth Choi is in a show on NBC, Derek Luke was recently on Empire, JJ Feild is over at AMC, and Bruno Ricci seems to be working back in France right now. Neal McDonough was the only one who wasn't in an ongoing project recently.

Given that Morita made an appearance in the Agents of SHIELD season premiere, I don't think Marvel is interested in recasting the Commandos. They just have back-ups now for when they can't get everyone.

edited 18th Feb '15 8:34:48 PM by BadWolf21

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#27374: Feb 18th 2015 at 8:46:33 PM

Even if they had recast the same Commando characters with different actors, fans likely still would have cried foul over them being "not our Commandos". It would be especially if, say in a hypothetical second season, the Commandos were to return and Luke or Field would be back in the role, prompting people to wonder why the character keeps inexplicably switching between appearances.

As it is, I'm glad they at least tried and also referenced the Commandos from the 60s. It's been a while, but even back in The First Avengers release there were those who complained about the Commandos there not having the original full lineup or putting Falsworth instead of Pinkerton, etc.

edited 18th Feb '15 8:48:35 PM by Tuckerscreator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27375: Feb 19th 2015 at 1:06:44 AM

New York in the 1940s was to more than 90% white. And no, that doesn't mean that the remaning people were black, it means that the remaining people classified as "not white"...the black population made up slighty over 6 percent at the start of the 1940s and reached over 9 percent by 1950. I am actually more irritated that there aren't more Irish people in the show (well, I guess Colleen was? And Steve might have been, too?). Between Angie and Sousa they have some people whith a clear non-english heritage, though.

There have been some black extras in the show...the busboy in the background of one scene, the boy who cleaned shoe in another, a woman who is living in Peggy's hotel, a night club owner...but it is not really surprising that the show is not bursting of them considering the time and that Peggy spends most of her time in the agency and fighting against Russian spies. Not that there weren't black people working as agents back then, but they were the exception, not the rule. I am glad that the show concentrates on one topic for now. But if they really do a "peggy in different eras" thing, it would be great to see her making SHIELD a diverse agency, and how she deals with the people who will fight her the whole way. And some other not so heroic points in American history.


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