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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27001: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:35:21 PM

My issue with The Incredble Hulk is that the good scenes in it didn't quite connect. Bruce trapped in this glass bridge and then the hand turning up in the smoke...a little bit Titanic, but beautiful done. Betty and Bruce in the cave? Very King Kong, but well played. The final fight? Well done.

But the story made not one lick of sence. On the one hand we are told and shown that Bruce is paranoid and worried about his blood ending up in the wrong hands. And yet he sends it across country to a guy he doesn't even know. We are told that Betty is an expert scientist. So why exactly does she never try to do anything with the data she has? If she worked with Bruce on the project she should know enough about it to search for a solution by herself, shouldn't she? Why is the army so keen on getting Bruce when they already have some sort of super-soldier serum which works without the monstrous side-effects? And Blonsky? So being a great fighter isn't enough, he just NEEDS to be a brutal monster? Who the hell wants that? He already got the powerful body he wanted, why is that not enough?

With a lot of stuff I have the feeling that is is just there because the writer wanted to get to a certain point, not because it fits the character. Like Bruce working in the factory, the whole point seems to be to get the blood in this bottle. But does the job really fit Bruce? Does it really make sense to attack Bruce the way they do at the university? Why don't they try to render him unconcious? That's the most obvious undercover military operation ever.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#27002: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:37:28 PM

Black Widow (and Hawkeye) lacked the solo movie all the other Avengers had, so they had to dump some backstory to compensate.

Mind you, my favourite scene witth Black Widow is where she outwits Loki. Too bad it does not contribute to the plot much.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27003: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:39:40 PM

[up] Well, she is also the one who tells Steve that they have to close the portal somehow and then manages to reach it, and finally closes the thing. You can say that she and Tony rescued them all.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#27004: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:43:22 PM

I think the thing with Blonsky is that here's this old war dog, who kicked ass, took names, was the baddest guy alive. Then here's this invincible monster, and your general says "I can make you stronger than you ever were." And you do it. You do the painful bullshit medical procedure, and you're stronger, and faster, and better than you've ever been. And it still wasn't good enough. You *still* got obliterated. You need to get stronger, you need to show this green son of a bitch that he can't just push you around. You need to take the fight to his level, show him just how bad you really are.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27005: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:47:35 PM

Keep in mind that by the time he demands the Hulk treatment from Sterns, Blonsky was under the influence of a mind-altering substance that, according to Dr. Erskine, takes whatever you are and makes you MORE.

Where the Red Skull is the distilled embodiment of Nazi ambition and power-hungry aspiration and Captain America is the distilled embodiment of honesty, faith, and selfless valor, post-serum Blonsky is the distilled embodiment of military-forged determination mixed with resentment of being surpassed by the inevitability of age.

edited 13th Feb '15 12:49:24 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27006: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:56:54 PM

[up]Captain America was made after The Incredible Hulk, and nothing about this was established in this movie.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#27007: Feb 13th 2015 at 12:57:38 PM

Hawkeye had nothing to do as an Avenger. Even the lack of character interaction would be more forgiving if, when he joined the good side again, he did something. As things were, though, it never felt as if it made a difference him going to NY with everyone. It feels that, if he had stayed at the helicarrier, nothing would change.

Funny thing is that this is a frequent source of character anxiety within the source material. Luckily, enough contrived situations crop up where a bow and arrow is totally necessary.

Also, I've heard that archery video was debunked.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27008: Feb 13th 2015 at 1:03:46 PM

[up][up] That the serum Blonsky takes is the Captain America serum is, however, foreshadowed in Incredible Hulk. That its actual effects hadn't yet been defined is irrelevant.

The definition to the serum provided by First Avenger complements Incredible Hulk by making what transpired more clear, similar to how the definition of the Tesseract being the Space Gem allows us to look back on First Avenger and go, "Oh, that's what that effect that looks like Thor's Bifrost vaporizing the Red Skull was."

edited 13th Feb '15 1:06:11 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#27009: Feb 13th 2015 at 1:06:53 PM

[up]It's not irrelevant when it prevents me from connecting to the characters.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27010: Feb 13th 2015 at 1:11:00 PM

The film already provides ample evidence that the serum is influencing Blonsky's emotional state. It's also well-established that Blonsky a) is frustrated with the withering effects of aging on his body, and b) thinks the Hulk is the goddamned coolest thing ever. Blonsky's become obsessed with the Hulk in his very next scene after fighting it, when he begs Ross to give him another shot at it.

He hasn't already gotten the body he wants once the serum's in him, because the body he wants is the Hulk.

edited 13th Feb '15 1:15:10 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#27011: Feb 13th 2015 at 1:20:23 PM

Also, I've heard that archery video was debunked.

Indeed it has been.

And I don't know why anyone believed it in the first place. All the "forgotten ancient techniques" sounded more like someone trying to sell me homeopathy than it sounded like an archer talking about archery, to me.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#27012: Feb 13th 2015 at 1:22:42 PM

Power Corrupts is a long-used trope, especially with science serums. It was already fairly obvious in Incredible Hulk, then First Avenger made it an in-universe effect.

edited 13th Feb '15 1:23:03 PM by Tuckerscreator

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#27013: Feb 13th 2015 at 2:23:48 PM

[up][up]I immediately laughed it off as false when it claimed that old timey archers never stood still.

Yes they did. Unless they were mounted they spent most of their time standing still. They were old school artillery after all.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#27014: Feb 13th 2015 at 2:43:34 PM

Point is, some of the stuff in it looked cool, and could work for other things Hollywood archers could do.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#27015: Feb 13th 2015 at 7:56:03 PM

Funny thing is that this is a frequent source of character anxiety within the source material. Luckily, enough contrived situations crop up where a bow and arrow is totally necessary.

I'd actually like to see that addressed in the sequel at some point.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#27016: Feb 13th 2015 at 8:31:56 PM

You know, after rewatching Amazing Spider-Man 2, I noticed at the end they mention Rhino being imprisoned in The Vault... but while I know Venom in the comics was jailed at least twice there, wasn't The Vault always more of an Avengers franchise location, while Ravencroft was the standard prison for Spidey villains? Maybe that slipped by through the same previous arrangement that almost had the Oscorp building showing in The Avengers?

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#27017: Feb 13th 2015 at 8:59:31 PM

[up]The Vault also showed up in Spectacular Spider-Man, which is also owned by Sony.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#27018: Feb 13th 2015 at 10:27:36 PM

Because I happened to spend the last hour or so thinking of how to make a new DCAU pulling the best of the various series DC animated series and films (fans of Miss Martian would possibly really enjoy my take on her), you've actually got me wondering more about DC now: Who is in Arkham besides Batman villains?

But I digress.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#27019: Feb 13th 2015 at 10:44:52 PM

The Vault seems to be a case of a shared property as it has appeared in several Marvel adaptations as well (namely: Earth's Mightiest Heroes had it as a key plot piece)

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27020: Feb 13th 2015 at 10:46:19 PM

[up][up] And here I was thinking of ideas for a new Teen Titans series!

...I think Jean Loring was in Arkham. As was the Psycho Pirate.

Oh God! Natural light!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#27021: Feb 13th 2015 at 10:52:17 PM

Doctor Destiny has been in Arkham every once in a while.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27022: Feb 13th 2015 at 10:54:56 PM

[up] Oh yeah, Destiny! I remember that one arc in the Sandman. The Scarecrow had some great lines there.

...I have a sudden wish to use Sandman characters, just for like an episode or two, but I don't know if that's possible.

edited 13th Feb '15 10:55:24 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#27023: Feb 13th 2015 at 11:00:49 PM

At some point, I'll have to write some of the stuff I was thinking down. At least the order of series and which characters go where. As for the Miss Martian reference, I was just thinking about how some storylines could tie together, and her own fits in well with a couple of events and arcs. I wasn't even a fan of hers until my mind started racing. It'd be nice to plot this all out. Who knows, maybe I could be DC's Kevin Feige.

Thanks for answering the Arkham question, guys. Back to your regularly scheduled talk.

edited 13th Feb '15 11:01:08 PM by wanderlustwarrior

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#27024: Feb 13th 2015 at 11:07:02 PM

This Arkham talk actually got me thinking about Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and how needing a place to put all the supervillains was actually a plot point, since the fact that their previous system was a bunch of really bad ideas was the original premise.

Does the MCU have enough supervillains for a supervillain-specific prison to exist, yet? I know there was The Fridge in Ao S, but that seemed more like "where we keep the super dangerous things we find, that have to stay away from normal people," which included but wasn't limited to dangerous metahumans. I always imagined it more as a fancy warehouse than a prison.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#27025: Feb 13th 2015 at 11:35:09 PM

It would probably be unwise to keep multiple supervillains in one place, though, even though that one place may be more specialized to hold them. There's a greater risk of loss if anything went wrong. Also, you have to invest a lot of energy into keeping things locked. We don't all have a Phantom Zone Projector to serve as our jail.

It seems that the MCU uses multiple locations, though the Fridge was the main one. Who knows, maybe Captain America Civil War will have that Negative Zone prison.

edited 13th Feb '15 11:36:06 PM by wanderlustwarrior


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