Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I'm a few pages latenote but I also liked Iron Man 3. I'm one of those who liked the twist, and I was more than happy to see Pepper have action scenes.
Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.The incredible Hulk is mostly incredible boring and contrived. The characters fell flat, the acting is so-so (Hurt is the only one who really works...and ironically Betty's new boyfriend...there is exactly one scene in the whole movie I really other than a few moments which are visually interesting, and that is the confrontation between those two) and a lot of the writing felt like something was just there because the writer wanted it to be there, not because it makes sense for the characters or the situation.
I don't see much of a problem of the Got G being in Infinity War. They are prior established character, and you don't necessarily need each Guardian interaction with each Avenger. If it works in a 20 minute episode to throw both groups together and let them fight a common enemy, it should work in two movies, too.
edited 13th Feb '15 1:14:09 AM by Swanpride
In a multi-pronged conflict in which the characters are competing with the villain to achieve six simultaneous objectives, I think there's room in a large cast for everyone to have something to do.
I would go so far as to say the protagonists should have around 3 people per Gem.
Also regarding Hawkeye not having much to do, Hawkeye had plenty to do in Avengers. Most of it was for Loki, however, because he spent the film mind-controlled, but he still infiltrated the German place to obtain Selvig's element, disabled a Helicarrier turbine with a well-placed shot, bested Nick Fury and Maria Hill by sniping the objective out from under them while they were distracted with the mooks, piloted the Quinjet that killed the mob on Iron Man's tail, utilized his sniper's vantage to direct the flow of the Battle for New York - it was Hawkeye that gave Iron Man the idea about banking hard and letting his pursuers slam into the building, and who provided him with intel on where to hit next.
He wasn't in the thick of it kicking dudes in the face through most of the action pieces because that's not the kind of character he is. Hawkeye's a sniper. If he does his job well, you shouldn't see him most of the time. That wasn't the problem. Where Hawkeye was lacking was opportunities to interact with the other characters, because he spent the duration of the film brain-washed.
edited 13th Feb '15 8:18:47 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hawkeye had nothing to do as an Avenger. Even the lack of character interaction would be more forgiving if, when he joined the good side again, he did something. As things were, though, it never felt as if it made a difference him going to NY with everyone. It feels that, if he had stayed at the helicarrier, nothing would change.
I'm certain that, even if they don't appear fighting Thanos or aiding the Avengers in some way in Infinity War (which they really should, given that they're the only one who really know what's going on), the Guardians will have some kind of extended sequence where they move to stop Thanos after he gets the Gem on Xandar.
Likewise, no matter what Loki's role in the movies are (likely going to be bigger as well), we can at least assume he'll appear when Thanos attacks Asgard.
<insert Dr. Strange character> will likely appear when Thanos attacks <insert place where Doctor Strange decides to put the Gem>. Etc.
edited 13th Feb '15 8:42:30 AM by KnownUnknown
Well, they could put everyone into Cast Herds like the Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes finale did, but that's gonna limit potential character interaction. Really, I think Days of Future Past handled its large cast the best. That movie knew who its main characters were (Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, and Wolverine) and everyone else was a supporting role.
I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.As an Avenger, Hawkeye directed the flow of the battle from a vantage point that provided an eagle-eye view of the city. He also covered Black Widow's ascent of the building, and is responsible for taking Loki out of the fight. When Hulk smashes Loki in Stark Tower, the reason Loki is in there to be smashed is because Hawkeye blew him the f*ck up.
One might argue that someone else could have done the things he did, but the same can be said of anyone. Thor could have used lightning to destroy the first Leviathan after Hulk punched it. Iron Man could have launched huge missiles into the portal instead of using Thor's lightning. Hulk could have lobbed the nuke at the mothership. Etc.
Hawkeye contributed plenty to the final battle; it just wasn't as cool and flashy as Thor lightning-smashing a jagged metal spike into a Leviathan's neck.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.One of my absolute favorite things about the climax of Avengers was that it felt like how a real battle, in how everyone had a job to do depending on their skills. All the Avengers took a specific tactical role, and it was executed without feeling like an Eigen Plot because all the roles made perfect sense, and even the heavy hitters weren't portrayed as having jobs with more weight than the ones without those power sets.
The first thing I thought after seeing it was "that's how you do an ensemble superhero fight." The part where Cap "calls it" and gives the orders to all the others is the highpoint of the movie imo.
It's something I also liked about the climax to Thor 2.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:06:20 AM by KnownUnknown
I do wish that they had gone with more shots of Hawkeye directing the battle while he's using explosive arrows and doing no look shots, or super long distance shots, or things like that that would've looked more visually impressive and thus stood out more. Like what if he shot a leviathan in the eye from a mile away, or told Cap where those penned in civilians were while he's looking at them, or shooting "blindly" at corners knowing the gliders "can't bank worth a damn", and thus hitting things he can't even see.
Also, if he used that knife. His short range archery looked lame and inefficient.
Also, this:
They have him directing Iron Man offscreen early in the fight, which is meant to establish that he's directing the others, even when he isn't being shown doing it.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:08:32 AM by KnownUnknown
![]()
I know they did, but they also went with the cheaper to do Helmet Cam for much of that shot, while it would've been cooler to see Hawkeye doing something.
I can't confirm everything in the video is accurate or real, but for something in a Hollywood movie, a lot of his tricks could work.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:16:40 AM by wanderlustwarrior
If we were watching Hawkeye the whole time instead of watching the characters he was directing, it would've defeated the purpose.
We also got a several shots of him surveying the battlefield during that scene, as well, but the point of it was to establish that he was giving others the information they needed to get the job done: the focus needed to be on that job getting done.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:14:47 AM by KnownUnknown
Okay, yes, Hawkeye had some technical strategy to contribute to the final fight, but come on, they could've chopped him out of the movie and no one would've batted an eyelash. Kind of like how nobody's going, "HEY WAIT A MINUTE WHERE'S WASP THE WHOLE MOVIE CRUMBLES TO PIECES WITHOUT HER" despite her being in the early screenplays.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:28:32 AM by spashthebandragon
I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.And could the same not be said of Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk? Any one of them could be replaced by the other two.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Yep, but at least they all had personality. To be honest, the cast of the next Avengers movie is about as variable as the next Smash Bros. roster. Avengers are chosen based on popularity, prominence in the comics, and who the writers happen to like. That's not a bad thing, but I think it'll become a bad thing if they start trying to shove twenty to thirty Avengers into each movie.
I'm in the minority that thinks Hawkeye had a decent, integral role in the movie's plot. There's nothing wrong with being The Heavy, especially in a Mind Control plot, and in the movie as a whole he had a major narrative role - being essential to Loki's scheme, the catalyst for Black Widow's arc and an important part of the climax.
Or basically, the idea that Hawkeye barely had a role is very exaggerated.
Would I like to see him get more development in the sequels? Hell yes. But to say he was somehow passed over in Avengers 1? Nah.
edited 13th Feb '15 9:39:46 AM by KnownUnknown

edited 12th Feb '15 10:06:37 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!