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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#26852: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:18:35 PM

I have to say I loved the Selvig-Jane-Darcy dynamic because, since I was in the middle of a Ph D at the time, I had great fun interpreting them as Ph D Advisor - Grad Student - Intern, with Thor 2 shifting to Post-Doc (Jane) - Grad Student (Darcy) - Lowly Intern (Darcy's assistant). I guess you have to be struggling with a thesis to appreciate the humour.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#26853: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:34:32 PM

I doubt Whedon had a "no sidekicks rule". On the DVD commentary he sounded very happy about including Pepper at Downey's suggestion and even says "you should always, if possible, include a Gwyneth in your films". Hayley Atwell was going to return in The Avengers in a "meeting old Peggy scene" until Whedon decided most of the "Cap adjusting to the modern days" scenes belonged in his own sequel, not to mention Joss wrote her a scene for Avengers 2. With that in mind, it's plausible that Portman was intended to appear without any objections from him.

edited 12th Feb '15 2:36:46 PM by Tuckerscreator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#26854: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:42:44 PM

[up][up]But Jane is not supposed to be a Grade student. That's the problem with the whole thing.

edited 12th Feb '15 2:42:52 PM by Swanpride

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26855: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:55:17 PM

I am as usual behind the discussion, but here are might thoughts about Thor: The character I would cut is not Darcy, it is Selvig. And yes, I know that mot people like this character. But think about it: Why does Jane need an "older and more experienced" scientist on her side? Why can't Jane be the one who springs Thor from Shield custody? Does he anything in this movie Jane couldn't do aside from doing this "if you hurt her I'll kill you" scene, which is annoying as heck and adds nothing to the plot? You remove Selvig and Jane suddenly becomes a way more interesting character because she is the only scientist around she is the one who makes the important decisions. Instead of Selvig and her talking science, you could have Jane trying to explain Darcy science...which in turn would mean that the audience would get something understandable instead of long winded science babble nobody cares about. And it would be a funny joke if Jane would science babble, Darcy would say "in english please" and Jane would answer "realms in one line, reality disturbed, might result in destruction of the universe" (or something like this). If every scene in the first movie which involved Selvig and Jane discussing if Thor can be a god or not (which was boring as hell because we know that he is) had insead been a discussion between Jane and Thor why one shouldn't seek out war and why one should respect other races, Thor's character arc as well as the romance would have been way better.

So Jane takes Selvig's place in Avengers?

Huh, that might actually be interesting, although I wonder if Natalie Portman can pull off the whole "Brainwashed reverence of Tesseract" thing. I'll assume she can, but then I haven't seen her in much, so I wouldn't know.

That might complicate Thor's arc in the movie, though. His bits of the movie mostly concern his relationship with Loki. Throwing Jane in there - especially by making her a mind-controlled minion of Loki's - while an interesting idea, would probably require things to change considerably.

I will admit that the movie could use a stronger female presence, though.

edited 12th Feb '15 2:56:10 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26856: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:55:27 PM

That's because Jeremy Renner was only in the early stages of his pregnancy for the shooting, so it wasn't visible, but they did have to do all his scenes quickly, which is why he was brainwashed for most of it.

Ah, that makes sense.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#26857: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:56:09 PM

Reason 8 I'm not fond of the whole Spider-man thing.

It means getting less films as for some reason MARVEL doesn't think three MCU movies in 2017 is good for business, despite the fact that there was a spider-man film set for then anyway.

Honestly I'm grumpy that they've decided to reboot the franchises when the tone of the Amazing Spider-man films is perfect for the MCU as it is and they have otherwise ongoing contracts with great actors in great roles. Honestly I would have made the deal but kept the continuity.

APM 2's theatrical release keeps enough things ambiguous that you have got a lot of wiggle room. The film implies that Norman's death was faked (and the deleted scene with his head in a jar doesn't have to be cannon) and if you're prepared to push the sinister six movie back to where it originally was meant to be you can carry on with Harry being a monstrous if somewhat tragic Green Goblin while Norman takes the role of the magnificent bastard.

edited 12th Feb '15 2:57:23 PM by Whowho

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26858: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:57:32 PM

The film implies that Norman's death was faked (and the deleted scene with his head in a jar doesn't have to be cannon)

Haha what?

This series has the best worst deleted scenes, I swear

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#26859: Feb 12th 2015 at 2:58:32 PM

Given that Thor snapped at Loki during the climax when he threatened to harm Jane, I get the feeling that having her involved would make him far less "reconcile please brother!" than he was in the film. He probably would be up there at the top of Stark Tower during the battle, trying to snap her out of her trance, when not beating the tar out of Loki.

Oh, and her telling Black Widow how to shut off the portal would mean the movie would pass the Bechdel Test.

edited 12th Feb '15 2:59:20 PM by Tuckerscreator

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26860: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:00:57 PM

[up][up][up] Um...how does it mean less films?

As for the complaint about rebooting again, the only reason Sony agreed to this in the first place is probably because ASM wasn't making them the money they wanted it to. ASM2 was the worst-performing movie they've done with the character, and the reactions to their plans for Sinister Six ranged from apathy to outright scorn. The series was an aneurysm waiting to burst.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:01:11 PM by BadWolf21

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26861: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:01:31 PM

[up][up] I'd like to see a scene with her and Natasha, don't get me wrong.

But yeah, Thor would probably want to be with her during the final battle, in order to help/protect her, and I think he needs to actually be fighting.

I'm also wondering how it would affect her interactions with Loki in "The Dark World".

edited 12th Feb '15 3:02:09 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26862: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:02:26 PM

She would double her slaps

"This is for New York and also this is for me. And what the hey have a bonus, this is for Thor"

edited 12th Feb '15 3:02:35 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#26863: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:08:00 PM

@Badwolf: I'm certain that's exactly why they took the deal.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26864: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:16:12 PM

Huh, that might actually be interesting, although I wonder if Natalie Portman can pull off the whole "Brainwashed reverence of Tesseract" thing.
I think if Thor 2 proved anything it's that Natalie Portman is the best at pretending to be interested in fake science.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26865: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:18:05 PM

[up] Interested, sure, but Selvig seemed to flat-out worship the thing.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:18:14 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26866: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:18:46 PM

[up][up][up]But is this because they are failing or because natural franchise decay? How does X Men's numbers compare? Or Marvel's, for that matter?

edited 12th Feb '15 3:19:05 PM by Heatth

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26867: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:23:25 PM

[up]Days of Future Past is the X-Men franchise's highest-grossing entry since X3, with The Wolverine coming in third. Meanwhile, every MCU Phase 2 film has outgrossed every MCU Phase 1 film except for The Avengers.

Spider-Man is the only one on a downward spiral.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:23:46 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#26868: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:29:25 PM

Considering 4 of the 5 highest grossing Marvel movies are in phase 2(and the one that isn't is Avengers) I think it's safe to say that what's happening to Spiderman is not related to superhero movies suddenly underperforming. Marvel managed to make more money off of Guardians of the Galaxy than Sony did off of Spiderman. Heck, even Xmen made more money than Spiderman.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26869: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:33:43 PM

[up][up]Wait, X3 was the most successful of the original trilogy? For real? While even Spider-Man 2 was behind the first one? How does that happen?

Anyway, yeah, jeez. I wasn't aware Spider-Man was struggling that much.

[up]I was thinking about the individual franchises. Mostly Ironman and Thor. So I wasn't factoring Guardians at all.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:34:48 PM by Heatth

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#26870: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:37:03 PM

The point is every single MCU film did better than its phase one counterpart so far and I see no reason why that should stop as long as the movies are good. Amazing 2, by contrast, made 50 million less than the previous one. That's a pretty noticeable dip.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#26871: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:38:28 PM

Not sure they could have had Natalie Portman running around naked in Dark World as a result of her mind being broken by Loki's brainwashing.

Or if they did, it probably wouldn't be Played for Laughs.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:42:43 PM by Hodor2

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26872: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:47:50 PM

[up][up]I got that. I replied to that fact in the first half of my post.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26873: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:50:29 PM

[up][up]Would've made the movie better, though...

Sorry, I don't know what your comment was in response to. Didn't read.

[down]Guessed as much. I liked Selvig much more than Jane. And Darcy more than Jane. and the Mighty Coathanger more than Jane. And Sif more than Jane. But I did like Jane more than Malekith.

edited 12th Feb '15 3:58:20 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#26874: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:51:58 PM

The idea of substituting Jane for Selvig.

Was being mostly facetious.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26875: Feb 12th 2015 at 4:20:44 PM

Heatth: The same thing happened with The Dark Knight Rises (although it's nowhere near as terrible as The Last Stand).

The Last Stand is a terrible movie. But it followed an excellent movie, and was the end of the trilogy. So it made oodles of money before people realized how bad it is.


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