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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26676: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:45:51 AM

Spider-Gwen in the latest Spider-Women

Spider-Woman: So, um... is that smiling goatee supposed to be Namor? How's the king of Atlantis become a pirate?

Silk: Best not to think about it. Alt-universes are screwy.

Spider-Gwen: I know, right? Somehow in yours I'm Peter Parker's dead girlfriend. Fridged off a bridge.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#26677: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:46:12 AM

@Karkat: Because every time Gwen Stacy gets adapted (whether it's a live-action movie, or a cartoon), there's a very real fear that she's gonna get killed to mimic/ape the comic storyline even if Gwen is one of the highlights of that particular adaptation

  • cough* The Amazing Spider-Man 2 *cough*

edited 11th Feb '15 10:46:59 AM by higherbrainpattern

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26678: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:50:55 AM

When do you think it started to do more harm than good? The trope-namer for Stuffed In The Fridge?
Well, one, that was actually Kyle Rayner, Green Lantern's girlfriend that did that.

The second the Comics Code ceased to be a threat was the second The Night Gwen Stacey Died needed to be reversed.

Well I mean the art shift was showing that the series was going downhill but the night Gwen Stacy came back was the biggest amount of proof.
I liked Gwen Stacarnage. sad

edited 11th Feb '15 10:51:48 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#26679: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:51:22 AM

Though as far as I know, ASM and SSM are the only times they adapted Gwen, and she only died in one of those.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26680: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:52:00 AM

[up][up] Well, I was talking more along the lines of the trend in general.

Why then in particular?

[up] And the other got canceled.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:52:39 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26681: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:53:05 AM

[up][up]There have been times they've refrained from adapting her because they knew they couldn't kill her off.

Out of "respect".

I feel gross just thinking about that.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:57:27 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26682: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:54:43 AM

I'd say that the ultimate universe had much bigger problems, going further back than people coming back to life.

One of these problems is called Mark Millar.

[up] Yeah thats pretty bad.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:55:00 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#26683: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:55:09 AM

@Wack'd, well we can't agree on everything. I mean on the one hand I was glad Gwen was back but on the other hand It made her already cheap death feel even cheaper. And while it's been a while since I read it, I remember feeling disgusted with the whole thing but it may have been because of the aforementioned art.

The Blog The Art
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#26684: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:55:22 AM

[up][up][up]I stopped reading comic books once they started to cost almost as much as lunch.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:55:42 AM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#26685: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:55:50 AM

Oh god, I just remembered Marvel Zombies.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#26686: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:57:28 AM

Respect my rear...

I tried to read Marvel Zombies. No. No thank you. I was never a zombie person but nothing made me "nope" harder than trying to read it.

The Blog The Art
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26687: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:57:28 AM

Moving so it doesn't get buried:

The second the Comics Code ceased to be a threat was the second The Night Gwen Stacey Died needed to be reversed.

Why then in particular?

Because The Night Gwen Stacey Died was supposed to be a shot at the Comics Code. It was structured to circumvent their rules and to demonstrate that serious, dramatic storytelling with adult themes would not destroy the minds of children as the people who made the Code thought it would.

Once other comics followed its lead and the Code slowly shriveled away into nothing, the comics following its lead had drastically misinterpreted "serious, dramatic storytelling with adult themes" as "stories where bad things happen to women". That was the point where the reverence for the storyline needed to stop and the problems it had caused needed to be fixed. Instead, Marvel doubled down, and comic storytelling and representation of women has suffered too much for it.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#26688: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:57:51 AM

[up][up][up]Anyone find it ironic that in that series people were literally being torn to shreds every second page but they edited out the swearing?

edited 11th Feb '15 10:58:19 AM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#26689: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:03:44 AM

[up] Not really, mostly because I am always surprised with how much violence you can get away in US shows, while every bit of nudity is edited out...in Germany it's the other way around. Nudity? Who cares as long as it isn't sexual. Violence? Cut it or it ends up on the index! The stuff which is shown in the US in regular TV can't be shown before 23:00 over here.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#26690: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:37:11 AM

Huh. Did not realize "The Day Gwen Stacy Died" was such a despised storyline.

I mean, I know comic writers hate it and have been trying to get rid of MJ and bring back Gwen The Saint for decades, but still.....

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26691: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:39:20 AM

Don't mistake a few people grieving about anything(not just this particular subject) as the same thing as a significant chunk of a fanbase having the same view.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26692: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:41:44 AM

I think it'd be better to just try improve the state of comicdom as a whole in the present, rather than going out of one's way to return to one event decades ago (one that writers already return to way too much - that's actually part of the problem) and going out of ones way to redo/undo it on the assumption that it would "fix" things. It's always better to improve writing than to screw around with continuity in order to just force the state of things that you want - One More Day is a great indicator of that.

Basically, move on and stop acting like we can't move on and improve from that point in time.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#26693: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:09:22 PM

[up][up] I mean, killing characters, especially women, for essentially what amounts to shock value is pretty old hat at this point. Or at least, it should be. Let female characters be good protagonists or supporting characters as well and not just have them merely be disposable objects to ramp up the Mangst of a male hero.

edited 11th Feb '15 12:11:24 PM by higherbrainpattern

johnnysasaki Since: Jun, 2012
#26694: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:31:28 PM

about time Sony realizes they can't make something good with Spider-Man on their own these days.

Here's hoping Fant4stic Four bombs hard too so that Fox also realizes they only hit the mark with X-Men and nothing else,and even then,when they miss,they miss badly and get things like X-Men 3 and Origins as results...

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26695: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:31:57 PM

Huh. Did not realize "The Day Gwen Stacy Died" was such a despised storyline. I mean, I know comic writers hate it and have been trying to get rid of MJ and bring back Gwen The Saint for decades, but still.....

I wouldn't say "despised", so much as "recognized for being rather played out by this point". Of course, I can't speak for everyone.

And "Gwen The Saint" doesn't strike me as much of an improvement.

Oh God! Natural light!
jdj42 Since: Oct, 2012
#26696: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:43:23 PM

I want Spider-Gwen to stay in her universe.

The world will look up and shout "Save us", and I'll look down and whisper "Too bad, Waluigi Time" Vote Loki 2016
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#26697: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:44:33 PM

So.

Jut a random idea I got.

Let's assume that the 1978 Superman was the biggest box-office hit of all time when it came out, and everybody got all up in the superhero craze. What would an 80s Cinematic Marvelverse look like? I've got money on De Niro or Pacino as Tony, but that's all that springs to mind.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26698: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:44:43 PM

If I were running Marvel, one iron-clad rule would be, "No do-overs. No take-backs."

We move FORWARD, not BACKWARD. I don't care how much you liked that series in the 70's, we're not pushing a Reset Button to appease the past.

The problem comics face today is that everyone's so busy trying to "fix" canon by bringing back the stuff they liked when they were kids that nobody's advancing it anymore.

edited 11th Feb '15 12:45:42 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26699: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:45:58 PM

[up] But wouldn't that mean you couldn't bring back characters who were killed off by bad writing?

Oh God! Natural light!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26700: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:46:42 PM

Yes. Which means editorial better be doing their jobs and weighing the value of a character before signing off on a death scene, secure in the knowledge of, "If we ever want to use Bob again, we can just rez him."

Characters today can be killed off left and right because death is cheap and everyone knows it won't stick. "Tonight: Spider-Man DIES for the fifth time! Be here next month when we launch his new ongoing!"

edited 11th Feb '15 12:47:30 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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