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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26426: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:17:09 PM

The creations of Iron Man and Spider-Man had a bit more to them than that (each of them used the mentioned trait as a hook for something else), but I'll concede the point.

As for Falcon...it was the '60s. Yeah, it was tokenism. But at the time, a black hero simply existing was a huge step forward. :P

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26427: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:20:21 PM

We seem to be going over the point Miles Morales isn't a new character, he's a already-established character. People want to know what he is besides his ethnicity because...well he's been a character for a while now. This is not a about a character being created, it's about a character being adapted.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26428: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:20:39 PM

I think my dare was perfectly relevant, but I think I explained my point better in my initial response.

I'm not actually that fast. The trick is to leave a window open with the original post in and then remember not to refresh.

As for "it was the 60s"—there are still very few minority heroes, and most of the ones in the public eye were created around the same time Falcon was.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:21:07 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26429: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:23:01 PM

I think one of the main things they should adapt with Miles is the idea that he's inspired by a hero or heroes who made a strong impression on him, and wants to take up the sword to honor them even if he's not sure he's really worth such a thing - so he's constantly comparing himself to people he perceives as greater than himself, and his character arc involves finding self-worth and seeing that he has become a real hero himself. It's a really interesting character arc, and because superhero movies have barely ever done the "inspiring the next generation of heroes" thing in general it'd be new, interesting ground.

If he does cameo in Civil War and Cap dies in that movie like we're pretty sure he might, then it would be pretty interesting for them to replace Peter Parker's death with Steve's death (though with Miles still donning a spider theme rather than becoming "Spider-America") - or even not a super hero that inspired: the events that inspired Miles could've been the result of the desolation caused by Ultron, for example.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:24:18 PM by KnownUnknown

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#26430: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:23:54 PM

Shit, wrong thread.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:27:09 PM by higherbrainpattern

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26431: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:24:31 PM

Wrong thread, I take it?

edited 10th Feb '15 3:24:39 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26432: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:25:03 PM

Damn HYDRA, always putting our posts in the wrong threads.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:25:13 PM by KnownUnknown

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#26433: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:25:26 PM

"Spider-America" sounds incredible. Not even as a superhero name, just as a concept.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26434: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:25:30 PM

This is New York, Marvel. Go back to Gotham, DC.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26435: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:25:41 PM

I wouldn't say "most". There's been a lot created more recently (Miles Morales, Jason Rusch, Jaime Reyes, Cassandra Cain, Kamala Khan, what's-his-face who wears purple in the New 52's Teen Titans, etc, etc). But yes, the late '60s did give rise to a fair number of minority superheroes. And it was a big deal at the time. Black Panther was the first black hero in mainstream comics, and he didn't even exist until 1966.

Additionally, that sentence was mainly a joke, to ease the tension. As evidenced by the :P. tongue

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#26436: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:29:59 PM

Marvel has had a lot of kid/teen heroes over the last few years now that I think about it:

  • All the Young Avengers
  • Miles Morales and Ultimate!Jessica Drew and the rest of the kids in their universe
  • Kamala Khan
  • Loki Odinson
  • Sam Alexander(the new Nova after the classic one died)
  • bringing in a younger X-Men team from the past

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26437: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:31:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]It depends. Is this an America full of Spider-Men, or an America full of actual spiders? Because one of those, I would like to live in, the other... maybe not so much.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:31:28 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26438: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:33:38 PM

A few years ago both Marvel and DC kind of stepped up introducing minority characters in their comics, though they each had their own tendencies. While they don't stick to them like glue or anything, I feel liked DC mostly went with introducing Legacy Characters who were a different race or gender (which I could swear we had a trope for), where Marvel likes introducing minority characters as supporting characters in the mythoses of their main heroes.

Both of these have their advantages and disadvantages, but its why at the time I thought Miles Morales was a pretty DC kind of move.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:34:47 PM by KnownUnknown

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26439: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:34:11 PM

Black Panther was made in 1966.

Huh.

Ever get the feeling the Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were just using random stuff they saw or heard for names?

Like, Black Panther sounded cool to them after hearing about the group, so they made a an African superhero. Or they saw a spider in their office one time, or a really buffed up dude who looked angry, or a guy with red sunglasses hanging out with a bald guy in a wheel chair.

[up]Affirmative-Action Legacy.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:35:33 PM by Ekuran

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26440: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:35:09 PM

The hero predates the group. They changed his name for a while when the Black Panther Party became more prominent and then went "Screw it, we were using it first."

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#26441: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:35:19 PM

I'm imagining it as an America where everyone has been replaced with giant spiders.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#26442: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:35:25 PM

Sounds like an America full of people with Spider-Man powers, but then eventually turn into giant spiders.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:35:41 PM by stingerbrg

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26443: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:36:10 PM

Black Panther changed his name at one point because he didn't want to be associated with an american political movement and then he changed it back sometime later because his new name wasn't as good/thats a bad reason to abandon a tradition of undetermined length.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26444: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:36:32 PM

I think Black Panther the character predates the publicization of the Black Panther Party to the extent that Stan Lee and co would have heard about it, too (which is the first thing everyone I know assumes was the inspiration for the character's name) - though not the organization itself - which is really surprising.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:38:20 PM by KnownUnknown

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#26445: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:36:49 PM

I'm perfectly willing to say that I don't want Peter" With great bla bla comes great bla bla" Parker.

Miles would be a breath of fresh air plus I like the idea of an ethnic kid hero and Miles comes across more like an average person as opposed to genius-intellect Peter.

@Hodor Ultimate Peter is one of the smartest people in the Ultimate Universe.

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#26447: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:43:11 PM

Black Panther Party, original name Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, African American revolutionary party, founded in 1966 in Oakland, California, by Huey Newton and Bobby Seale. The party's original purpose was to patrol African American neighborhoods to protect residents from acts of police brutality.

Huh, I guess Panther probably did come before the party. I always assumed they formed earlier than that. The More You Know.

The second bolded part seems unfortunately relevant to this day.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:43:30 PM by Ekuran

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26448: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:44:06 PM

Spider-Man showing up in Civil War is happening!!!

EDIT: Cue the obligatory "I Knew It!" and "Called It" quips.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:46:04 PM by TargetmasterJoe

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26449: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:45:13 PM

[up][up][up][up]So to recap, you want Miles in the movies because 1) he's black and 2) he's not Peter. Wow, thanks for so perfectly illustrating the point I've been trying to make about people who want Miles instead of Peter.

Also, I've read all the Ultimate Spider-Man comics up to when Peter died, and I don't remember him ever being "one of the smartest people in the universe."

edited 10th Feb '15 3:47:08 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#26450: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:45:33 PM

[up][up]I think that was a Foregone Conclusion. The only other movies it could possibly be were Age of Ultron, Doctor Strange, Thor: Ragnarok, or Guardians of the Galaxy 2, all of which are unlikely.

[up]I don't get why you care so much about this.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:47:05 PM by comicwriter


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