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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#26376: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:50:10 PM

I don't read the comics. I just want Miles for reasons stated and because of my unfamiliarity of the character. And no, I'm not about to start reading the books when yet another reboot is on the way.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26377: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:51:22 PM

Tucker: Yeah, because that's how you avoid pissing off fans. Literally say "Peter Parker" in a press release, then secretly have it be Miles Morales when the actual movie is out. That will make you much-loved. Yup.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#26378: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:51:59 PM

One didn't have to be a fan of the Guardians of the Galaxy comics first in order to want Marvel to release the Guardians of the Galaxy movie.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26379: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:52:14 PM

I would actually love to see Ultimate Jessica Drew in the MCU, except that would probably exclude a more 616-styled Jessica Drew from showing up. I guess they could change the female clone's name or something...

And they could cast a crossdressing Andrew Garfield or Tobey Maguire!

[up]I don't really think comparable. Both Peter supporters and Miles supporters agree there should be a Spider-Man in the MCU, they just disagree on which one. It'd be more like arguing about which Guardians members ought to appear in the first GOTG movie, wouldn't it?

Like, for instance, I know squat about Captain Marvel, but then can I really be said to have a strong opinion about which Captain Marvel the movies should use? Wouldn't I just be picking one arbitrarily? How could that opinion possibly have any value?

edited 10th Feb '15 1:56:14 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26380: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:55:11 PM

I'm really hoping for Spider Woman now. She was kind of in a grey area, rights-wise, so since Sony and Marvel are playing nice now it hopefully won't be an issue.

Maybe even have her in the second wave of Netflix shows, instead of a movie? I mean her new costume was specifically designed to give her a more street-level look so she doesn't have to do detective work in bright red spandex. Seems like she'd be a good fit.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26381: Feb 10th 2015 at 1:57:13 PM

It's worth noting that the follow who noted Peter Parker is doing so at the point where we just got off the last few movies centered around Peter's story. At this point, they probably aren't even at the point yet where the would be planning whether the New Spidey will be Peter - if the idea was even going to be seriously considered it, it wouldn't be doing so today.

^^^ No one has said that anyone has to be a fan of Miles to want him to have a movie. Since you've repeated that twice now, I'm inclined to ask where you're getting that impression.

edited 10th Feb '15 1:59:02 PM by KnownUnknown

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#26382: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:02:36 PM

Er, I was responding to Spash. The impression I was getting was that he was accusing others of wanting Miles in the films only because we didn't want Peter, not because we were actually readers of his comics. My argument was that the latter is still a valid reason, since the announcement of the Guardians movie was supported by much of the MCU fanbase despite most of them having not read Guardians comics.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26383: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:05:13 PM

[up]Wanting Miles in the movies just so Peter can't be in them isn't an "invalid" reason, per se. People can have whatever opinion they want for whatever reason they want. I just think it's a reason that promotes bad writing.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:05:32 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26384: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:07:16 PM

The impression I was getting was that he was accusing others of wanting Miles in the films only because we didn't want Peter

Yeah, see, the problem with this reasoning is that this sort of thing isn't indicative of not being a fan of a character, its arguably indicative of not caring about the character at all - in this interpretation, a person who just wants "not-Peter" in a movie doesn't want or care about Miles, they just don't want Peter. I'm assuming that implication is what Splash is reacting to.

It's not that comparable to the Guardians example, because the public didn't know much about the Guardians at all. It's not like people were like "there are too many Iron Man movies, so we're collectively picking this franchise out of a hat and rallying around it." It was a legitimately new experience for most, and they only starting supporting it after Marvel had already introduced it to them by way of announcing the project.

This is asking Marvel to go in a certain direction simply because it's not a different direction.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:11:06 PM by KnownUnknown

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#26385: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:09:12 PM

I'll put it out there that the fact that Miles is not white is itself a decent reason for including him, given that the MCU is so lacking in diversity.

I also think that Miles and Kamla Khan are interesting in part because they represent modern New York, whereas the traditional Marvel heroes reflect middle and upper class New York at the time they were created (or in the case of Daredevil, a high crime Irish-American neighborhood that no longer really exists- it's actually apparently a plot point in the Netflix show that Kingpin is involved with gentrification).

I don't mind Peter being in the film, although I'm a bit wary of the version of the Peter they will use. The cartoon Ultimate Spider-Man Peter is obnoxious, and if they want a Kid Hero version than Miles would be better (since he isn't obnoxious).

I really like the idea of the older Peter who is in college or even has graduated and is involved in science, but in some ways he's no longer needed since we've got Ant-Man (Ant-Men?)

edited 10th Feb '15 2:12:50 PM by Hodor2

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#26386: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:10:06 PM

Well, the Guardians were more or less a very obscure comic right? And I only mentioned reading the comics, because I figured someone would suggest I read one.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26387: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:11:46 PM

[up][up] I'm down with that as long as Miles is given his own traits from the comics, or failing that original traits to the film that still differentiate him as a character, and isn't just written as "Mexican Peter."

edited 10th Feb '15 2:12:15 PM by KnownUnknown

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26388: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:12:04 PM

You know, I have yet to see any Miles fans in this discussion articulate why they like him as a character for any reason besides "He's not Peter." Heck, Geth Knight straight-up admitted he knows nothing about Miles and just wants him in because of his obscurity.

Seriously, if anyone wants to start shilling Miles's character, I'm all ears.

[nja][up][up][up]We've already had War Machine/Iron Patriot and Falcon, and Luke Cage and Black Panther are upcoming, so that's not the most pertinent reason ever.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:18:02 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26389: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:13:03 PM

I'll put it out there that the fact that Miles is not white is itself a decent reason for including him

No it's not. In fact, it's the worst reason for including him. If that's the best reason you can come up with, not something to do with him as an actual character, but because he's not white, then it's just tokenism.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26390: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:13:58 PM

[up][up] To be fair, only one of those is a headliner so far (since Panther is getting mostly supporting roles for a long time), and both Rhodey and Sam are blatant Satellite Characters. Luke is the only one who is really going to start as a presence on his own any time soon, and as a tv show character he's unlikely to have a meaningful presence on the films (and thus, the universe as a whole).

edited 10th Feb '15 2:16:25 PM by KnownUnknown

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#26391: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:15:16 PM

@Splash- Apologies if this seems like moving the goalposts, but War Machine and Falcoln are not going to be given their own movies and neither will Luke Cage (I wouldn't rule out he and the other "Netflix characters" showing up in the movies, but right now that isn't in the cards for any of them).

That leaves Black Panther.

I probably don't have reason to worry that his movie will be shelved indefinitely, but I kind of do, because it seems to me that the MCU was open to the more "obscure" characters in part because they couldn't use Spider-Man.

[up][awesome] [nja]

edited 10th Feb '15 2:16:40 PM by Hodor2

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26392: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:16:06 PM

I'd like to point out that when I say "worst reason" I mean that it can certainly be a reason, but it shouldn't be the best one you've got. In the list of reasons Miles Morales is a good character, "brown" shouldn't be at the top of the list.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:18:28 PM by BadWolf21

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#26393: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:16:25 PM

Miles not being white is totally a good reason to make a movie about him.

It's only tokenism if that's all his character amounts to.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26394: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:16:30 PM

[up][up][up]I would be shocked if Spider-Man's inclusion in the MCU somehow causes Black Panther to be canceled.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:16:55 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#26395: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:16:45 PM

Everyone loves Youndu. He has, as far as I can tell, nothing to do with the character in the comics. The good thing about Got G is that they can pick their own way. Because it is such an unknown property they can tweak characters or even fundamentally change them, and they will get away with it. But Spider-man? That is never going to work. And it wouldn't be wise either. Plus, while I loved Andrew Garfield as Spider-man, I don't think that we have gotten the perfect Spider-man movie yet. Not by a long shot.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26396: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:17:38 PM

[up] That happens sometimes. I feel the same way about Superman.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#26397: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:18:50 PM

Moving this so it doesn't get buried.

Hodor: They still can't. Sony is making Spider-Man movies, not Marvel. I've been saying since I saw the news that this is the best possible thing for Marvel. They can include Spider-Man in their universe, but not have to give over part of their line-up to him, leaving them free for whatever weird experiments (Guardians, Inhumans, etc.) they want to try.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#26398: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:21:49 PM

Okay, so I'm basically demanding a list of reasons Miles is a worthwhile character. For the sake of fairness, I should probably articulate why I like Peter Parker so much. He's a witty, snarky, lovable everyman. When written well, he's incredibly easy to sympathize with, and there's a whole lot of escapism to be had in his everyday life and social problems. His supporting cast is also great, with Jameson being the highlight, and he's got one of the most memorable Rouges Galleries in all of comics.

There. That's why I want Peter in the movies. Not because "he's not Miles," but because he has several traits that I enjoy and want to see on the big screen.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26399: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:22:01 PM

No it's not. In fact, it's the worst reason for including him. If that's the best reason you can come up with, not something to do with him as an actual character, but because he's not white, then it's just tokenism.
No it's not. It's certainly possible to decide to put a black character in a work and then decide you're done and not bother to give them any personality or plot relevance. But it is damn near impossible to do that with your lead character, because regardless of how well you write them, they've still got the weight of the entire narrative on their shoulders. Add to that the fact that, whether you know anything about it or not, Miles has four years of comics behind him during which he almost definitely has a personality, and it becomes far harder to make a movie in which Miles is a token black guy than it is to make a movie where he's a person.

And on top of that, I am just sick to fucking death of the assumption that, unless you're writing a minority character because the idea really genuinely appeals to you, doing so is somehow morally repugnant. No one gets to become a writer for a summer blockbuster without writing something to fill a narrative checkbox or pander to a "special interest group" or some crap like that.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26400: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:27:24 PM

I don't see anything wrong with people wanting to know what makes Miles Morales a compelling protagonist. It's a legitimate discussion to have what interesting plotlines and development he could bring to the role in the big screen. The problem is that the discussion always ends up chained to the fact he's a minority one way or another. It's great to expand diversity in the movies, but can't people just merely discuss the writing?

Truth to be told, I don't have anything against Miles Morales, but I have no idea who he is, and I'd appreciate enlightment on the potential he might have to the MCU.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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