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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#26276: Feb 10th 2015 at 9:53:28 AM

As long as certain hereos are fugitives, the fight is not really over...let's put it this way: in Civil War everything will blow up, Infinity War 1 is the point at which they go back to the status quo.

MiscellaneousSoup (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26277: Feb 10th 2015 at 9:55:05 AM

Nick Offerman as J. Jonah Jameson....I think I just died slightly, in a good way. That would be cool!

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#26278: Feb 10th 2015 at 9:55:17 AM

[up]Dear lord yes.

"Jameson, do we really need fifteen Spider-Man articles per issue?"
"I know what I'm about, son."

edited 10th Feb '15 9:56:01 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26279: Feb 10th 2015 at 9:57:21 AM

I need to watch Parks and Rec and Community. Probably some other things.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#26280: Feb 10th 2015 at 9:58:56 AM

As funny as that sounds J. K. Simmons will always be Jameson in my mind.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#26281: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:00:08 AM

He really was the purest embodiment of J. Jonah Jameson in live action.

But I think Nick Offerman would be a suitable stand-in.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
MiscellaneousSoup (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26283: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:02:11 AM

And, as shown many times in Parks And Recreation, Nick Offerman can get very angry as Ron Swanson. Jameson is all about the anger.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#26284: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:03:53 AM

That's becuaseh e is Jameson. Besides the 90s cartoon there is no other Jameson than him. For all the old Spidey Films' flaws, J. K. Simmons was The perfect J. Jonah Jameson.

Also, On the news of Spidey being in the MCU, I'm lukewarm on it. I was hoping the MCU was going to keep on going to prove that they didn't need their historically biggest and most popular properties to succeed.

I guess I just didn't expect Sony to give up so easily. I thought we would be waiting so long to get Spidey back that talking about him being in the MCU would be wholly irrelevant. I mean I know the Amazing Spider-man 1 and 2 was bad, I mean I had to sit through every agonizing second and tried to MST 3 K it with my friends, but I didn't think it was "Sony is giving up" bad.

The Blog The Art
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#26285: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:05:43 AM

[up][up][up]Hallelujah.

As long as certain hereos are fugitives, the fight is not really over..

Yes it is. Once the act was passed and Cap was dead the fighting stopped. The heroes weren't fight each other anymore (not on that level) and what came after was essentially trying to rebuild.

I'm sure Infinity War will be what reunites them but I doubt Civil War is going to keep on running since none of the other films before Infinity War have any connection to it. Ragnarok is likely going to be mostly about Asgard and GOTG 2 is gonna be space based again.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:08:06 AM by comicwriter

GaryCXJk Wants Captain N for SSBU Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Wants Captain N for SSBU
#26286: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:05:58 AM

Okay, hypothetical talk time. She-Hulk story progression.

In most superhero films the story is about discovery in the first, acceptance in the second and reaffirmation in the third. You first have the hero discovering what being what heroing is about, then you have the hero in self-doubt if the hero is fit for the job, and finally, he is put to the test to see if he deserves to be a hero.

This does not fit with She-Hulk. Instead let's follow a different path.

First, she has to figure out her limits. She might become overconfident, and that would be her biggest conflict. She might think she's invincible, but she isn't.

In the second film, she needs to accept that she's still Jennifer Walters, that this part of her still exists, and also that this isn't a weakness or a bad thing.

Finally she has to be able to deal with not having powers anymore, with being unable to turn into She-Hulk. But, it's also about being as confident as her even without the strength or her physique. She might not be as sexy as She-Hulk, but gosh darn it, Jennifer is still a sexy lady.

But that's just how I'd do her movies.

Signatures are for lamers.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#26287: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:10:04 AM

Mousa: I'm also surprised Sony gave up this quickly. They seemed pretty set on making their own Spider-man Cinematic Universe. I thought they'd at least get Sinister Six out there before they decided to call it quits.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26288: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:10:57 AM

Amazing 2 was totally "Sony giving up" bad. Not just because of the film itself, but because of the way it set up Sony's plans for a Spider-Man Cinematic Universe by killing off one of the two most likable stars in the franchise and sabotaging the protagonist of the next film.

Sony's plans depended on Sinister Six being a hit, and Amazing 2's ending guaranteed that nobody wanted to cheer on Sony's Harry Osborn as he takes center stage of his own film. It's like if, at the end of Iron Man, instead of Fury inviting Stark to join the Avengers Initiative, the Stinger was the Hulk destroying the Stark residence and beating Pepper to death, then going, "COME SEE HULK'S MOVIE!" before leaping off into the distance.

This should be a no-brainer, but NEVER have the next film's protagonist murder one of the most beloved characters in the franchise unless you want to fail.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:11:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#26289: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:12:08 AM

[up][up]I think what happened was that Spider-Man was being surpassed by characters he's arguably way more popular than. Avengers, X-Men and Captain America? Sure. But when frickin' Star-Lord makes more money than Marvel's most iconic superhero, it's time to start doing damage control.

They watched Marvel kick their ass with a movie starring a bunch of Z-list losers nobody had ever heard of, and decided they wanted some of that magic to rub off on them.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:12:48 AM by comicwriter

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#26290: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:12:56 AM

Maybe they didn't realize people cared so much about Gwen.

Still should have saved her death for Amazing 3 though.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26291: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:13:30 AM

Those "Z-list losers" beat a lot of movies, up to and including two out of three Iron Man films. #8 on the Superhero listings ain't nothin' to scoff at.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:14:15 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26292: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:15:12 AM

The first She Hulk plot should probably be about why she isn't a rampaging beast like her cousin - a story about finding some way to save herself from that fate, or gaining control over it in some way that wouldn't apply to Bruce.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#26293: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:16:47 AM

[up]I didn't say it wasn't. My point was they watched Spider-Man struggling and flailing while Marvel successfully made a massive hit out of a bunch of obscure superheroes who couldn't even hold down a book without getting cancelled.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:17:04 AM by comicwriter

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#26294: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:17:54 AM

(Also because they were yelled at by the main office for ignoring Marvel and refusing to even talk with them out of pride. Sony Pictures are many things but when the big boss of Sony tells you that you are a racist idiot and that you are going to go back and see what Marvel wants to talk about you're going to do it.)

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#26295: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:18:19 AM

Maybe they didn't realize people cared so much about Gwen.
She was essentially the series deuteragonist. And I doubt they would have framed her death like they did if they didn't at least think people liked her.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26296: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:19:52 AM

They took a calculated risk that, honestly, probably could have paid off for them if they didn't have Harry do it.

Killing Gwen wasn't, in and of itself, the mistake. Having Harry kill Gwen immediately before asking people to follow him off into his own movie was. Nobody cares about your movie, Harry, because you murdered our favorite character.

They knew exactly how impactful Gwen's death would be, but didn't think about the consequences of how the audience would view her killer.

edited 10th Feb '15 10:20:57 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#26297: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:22:31 AM

Okay Tobias, when put like that, you make an excellent point. I forgot how attached people were to this version of Gwen. I was always positive-to-neutral towards her, but I found her death to be entirely preposterous in so many ways. The circumstances surrounding it, how it happened, the fact that the moment made me laugh when it wasn't supposed to... But that's not the point.

Also, I knew they were setting up a Sinister Six film but I guess it just never hit me that their Harry Osborne was supposed to lead it. I don't know why it never occurred to me that was how it was going to work.

The Blog The Art
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#26298: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:22:46 AM

I would argue that killing Gwen was a mistake. Yes, let's take the primary female protagonist and have her die for the hero's manpain. Because that isn't cliched as fuck or arguably sexist.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26299: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:23:11 AM

Being the Ensemble Dark Horse is not like a barbarian line of succession, where if you kill the fanbase's previous favorite character, you get to become the new favorite!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#26300: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:23:43 AM

It was simply a case of too many conflicting ideas. It is too bad, because I really liked TAS....not saying that there wasn't room for improvement, but it was great to finally get a spider-man who actually develops and who is paired up with a character instead of a sexy lamp. In any case, I'll hold this version of Spider-man close to my heart. But I'll also be open to a new one, which might be even better.


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