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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#25226: Jan 25th 2015 at 9:55:54 PM

I don't think it's that oversaturated. First Avenger had a lot of yellow in it too, as golden era 40s lighting.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#25227: Jan 25th 2015 at 11:07:02 PM

Now that you mention it, Ultron using Witch to drive Banner away from his friends by forcing him to undergo an illusion that the world (represented by the police) has turned against him once more and a person he considered his friend built a superweapon specifically to put him down (something that he was used to but still clearly bothered by in the first Avengers) sounds like a really intriguing idea.

I initially assumed the Hulkbuster was a "Superman gives Batman a piece of Kryptonite" kind of situation: where Banner helped Tony create it just in case. But having it be the literal creation of Banner's worst nightmares and suspicions would really work with the "lines drawn in the sand" nature that the road to Cap 3 seems to be about to take: especially if said illusion really does have some basis in reality, or the illusion causes him to Hulk out and go on a rampage for real.

And it makes sense, as Ultron has to know that getting the Hulk out of the picture is an important part of winning - what better way than to shake his newfound sense of security and make him too paranoid to work with his allies?

Well, I guess he could always launch him into space...

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25228: Jan 26th 2015 at 12:40:04 AM

lego actually spoiled the reason for Hulks rampage. But in any case, the Hulk is a special case. It is not like the other Superheroes are constantly in danger to loose control over their power.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#25229: Jan 26th 2015 at 2:38:11 AM

This is the LEGO description btw:

Hulk has been trapped by the powers of Scarlet Witch and she is ready to fire an electrical bolt if he tries to escape! Place Iron Man in the cockpit of the humungous Hulk Buster suit and rush to the rescue. On the way you must fend off aerial attacks from the flying Ultron. Adjust the Hulk Busters arms and legs to create fearsome battle poses and grab the villain with the powerful hands. With Ultron safely in the mechs grip, attach Iron Man to his Super Jumper. Then take out Scarlet Witch with an accurate jump and free the imprisoned Hulk! Includes 3 minifigures with assorted weapons and accessories: Iron Man, Ultron and Scarlet Witch, plus a Hulk figure.
The party LEGO set has this:
The Heroes are having a party when suddenly Avengers Tower comes under Ultron attack from the inside! Evil Ultron Mark 1 has assembled himself in the lab and is exploding out the windows. Help Iron Man and Thor to defeat Ultron and the 2 Iron Legion accomplices under his control. Make plans in the JARVIS control room and treat injured Super Heroes in the sick bay. An Iron Legion is blasting out the doors and windows of the ground-floor robot bay. The other has stolen the Loki Scepter from the analysis lab so pursue him with Thor and take aim from the roof of the tower with the secret hidden drone and stud shooters. You must retrieve the Scepter and stop Ultron! Includes 5 minifigures with a weapon and assorted accessories: Ultron Mark 1, 2 Iron Legions, Iron Man and Thor.
The other sets really give off the vibe that the final battle is only Iron Man vs Ultron.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#25231: Jan 26th 2015 at 6:30:32 AM

Also as we expected, Whedon says it's extremely unlikely that he'll be directing Infinity War, as he found the commitment to the last two movies to be kind of insane and detrimental to his more personal projects.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25232: Jan 26th 2015 at 6:45:41 AM

That's too bad. But not unexpected. But hey, Marvel has a good eye for talent. And on the plus side, it might result in him having more time to pay attention to Ao S. And who knows...he might write the script for infinity war, even if he doesn't end up directing the movies himself.

edited 26th Jan '15 6:48:08 AM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#25233: Jan 26th 2015 at 7:52:15 AM

RDJ has some interesting quotes about Tony in Civil War.

It's natural to change your views. The main thing to me is, what sort of incident could occur, and what sort of framework could we find Tony in? The clues about where we might find him next are in Ultron. But what would it take for Tony to completely turn around everything he's stood for? Joss brings this up all the time. It's kind of weird that these guys would have all these throw downs all over planet Earth and yet when the movie's over, nobody minds. What would the American government do if this were real? Wouldn't it be interesting to see Tony doing something you wouldn't imagine?

Also Steve:

The biggest question is, for Chris and for Cap, how do we bring Cap to a place where people go, 'Man, I never thought I would see such a vast change in Steve.' After you see Snowpiercer, you're like, 'I want to see a little bit of that guy.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25234: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:02:34 AM

I guess the change refers to Cap changing from being patriotic and being pretty much pro-government to him standing up against it? I don't think that it would be that much of a change. Cap in it's core was never that patriotic, what he truly believed in was standing up to bullies, not necessarily fighting for America. And in a world in which the government is the bully, he would surely go against it. Steve doesn't believe in America, he believes in the ideals on which America was founded, which is a pretty important difference. He will always do what he perceives to be the just thing.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#25235: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:07:11 AM

I don't think that's what he's talking about at all. If that were the case we've already seen him oppose SHIELD and give Nick Fury a What the Hell, Hero? moment.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25236: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:20:52 AM

He was fighting Hydra, not Shield. Shield was most collateral.

edited 26th Jan '15 8:21:09 AM by Swanpride

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#25237: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:24:07 AM

That's what they should do but keep in mind this is a Captain America movie. I find it unlikely they won't try to make him seem more heroic.

I agree with this.

I'd like to see a nuanced and complex conflict where neither Stark nor Rogers is entirely right and both have great points, but after Winter Soldier, I'm not holding my breath for it. Winter Soldier was a fantastic film in many ways, but it doesn't quite give me faith in their ability to really explore a complicated issue when they depict the debate of Freedom vs. Security as an unambiguously right Captain America versus literal Nazis.

edited 26th Jan '15 8:24:35 AM by TobiasDrake

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25238: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:33:57 AM

[up]I disagree. The Winter Soldier took a stance, but it did take care to show the arguments of both sides. Fury certainly has a point about taking the world how it is. The danger with this approach is what we see in Pearce, but that doesn't mean that Fury is totally wrong.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#25239: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:36:54 AM

I disagree; the movie makes its stance clear in the scene where Cap demands to throw the baby out with the bathwater, Fury disagrees, and the entire supporting cast basically says, "Fury is totally wrong," including Hill and Widow who had been his supporters up to this point. Finally, even Fury agrees and makes no effort to undermine Cap on the matter.

He shows up in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. undermining Cap on the matter, but that's not a Captain America movie; it has different writers.

edited 26th Jan '15 8:38:15 AM by TobiasDrake

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#25240: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:38:11 AM

[up]About trying to preserve shield even though it has been corrupted by hydra. Not that the idea of shield in itself is wrong.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#25241: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:40:17 AM

How to change Cap for Civil War:

  • Have Red Skull take over his body
  • Age him up and make him have a midlife crisis
  • Kill Bucky
  • He was a Skrull all along!

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#25242: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:40:56 AM

That's because they had no clue who was Hydra and who wasn't. I don't think it's because Cap decided Shield shouldn't exist at all.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#25243: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:40:57 AM

He was fighting Hydra, not Shield.

No, even in the beginning he was telling Fury he was uncomfortable with what SHIELD was doing, and even told Peggy that the only reason he stays with SHIELD is because she helped found it.

They've already made it clear by now that he's willing to go against the establishment if he thinks what they're doing is morally wrong.

[up][up]I'm pretty sure what they're implying is that he's going to play a little dirtier this time around. Desperate times and desperate measures and all that.

edited 26th Jan '15 8:42:26 AM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#25245: Jan 26th 2015 at 8:58:03 AM

[up][up] That, yes. His disapproval of S.H.I.E.L.D. was apparent from the beginning and was the crux of the Freedom v. Security argument; Cap's freedom vs. S.H.I.E.L.D.'s security. This argument was handled by revealing S.H.I.E.L.D. to be secretly filled with Nazis, thus giving Captain America the opportunity to burn both S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra to the ground in one fell swoop, to unanimous approval from everyone who once supported S.H.I.E.L.D. but has since come around to agree with his side of things.

That S.H.I.E.L.D. itself is meant to be unambiguously wrong is also evident in such bits as Widow and Cap's conflict. Widow represents Fury's methodology and even in the first scene where hers and Cap's conflicts, Cap comes out completely on top; Widow claiming that the explosion that allowed Batroc to escape was her fault, and Cap answering, "You're damn right." Widow and Fury's secrecy undermines Cap's mission and Batroc escapes because of it.

Post-reveal, Widow repents her involvement with S.H.I.E.L.D. to Cap while at Sam's house, equating it to her earlier work, and from that moment forward, she is fully dedicated to doing things his way.

The film isn't subtle about its handling of Cap and S.H.I.E.L.D. Cap is depicted as always correct in his mannerisms and methodology; as a character, he doesn't grow an inch in the film, because he was Right from the very beginning. Instead, it's everyone else who has to grow around him; he is the moral center that the rest of the cast spends the film coming to understand and appreciate for his ethical high ground. Cap's methodology defeats the villains and saves the day, while Fury's methodology fills his house with Nazis and gets him assassinated.

edited 26th Jan '15 8:58:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#25247: Jan 26th 2015 at 10:15:19 AM

According to Marvel's Facebook page, David Tennant has been cast as the Purple Man.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#25250: Jan 26th 2015 at 10:20:07 AM

But he isn't purple.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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