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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Hmm. So either the internet would be up in arms about unceremoniously killing off a fan-favorite who had been part of the MCU for years, or unceremoniously killing off a character who had their last appearance in the film wasted and needed more time to develop.
…that’s a Morton's Fork if I ever saw one.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."![]()
Morton's Fork, thy name is the Marvel Fanbase.
Yeah, thinking about it, it makes the most sense that Bucky's original role might have strictly been as an investigator with the senate trying to take Contessa down. It is noticeable that when Bucky moves into being a part of the team, that subplot just doesn't get an ending at all.
In that view, he may have been originally intended to be the team's... like... Jim Gordon of sorts maybe? A minor-character lawman who is not part of their group, and is slightly antagonistic to them, but is ultimately on their side and helps them do the right thing outside the confines of their mandate?
Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 29th 2025 at 1:45:24 AM
https://movieweb.com/fantastic-four-first-steps-itunes-streaming-success-september-2025/
According to Movieweb, Fantastic Four's hit the top charts in paid streaming. While the actual profits for streaming still aren't known, no longer making a billion dollars at the box office but making it big (however much that may be) on streaming may be Marvel's best path forward.
As far as box office is concerned, WB immediately celebrating Superman's relative success at its opening weekend (which is a huge gamble that ultimately paid off) plus openly stating that $500 million is already a profit for them in contrast to Marvel and Disney's radio silence may have also played a factor in terms of public impression and staving off armchair box office accounting.
On the other hand, waiting for streaming may indeed be profitable at the cost of cannibalizing box office but the actual computations are harder to figure out. The closest known for example is the report months ago that The Acolyte actually drew the biggest viewing numbers for Disney+ but its budget didn't make up for the views while Agatha All Along had a low budget but drew much much bigger views in comparison to its budget. But the only dollar amounts known are the shows' budgets so there's still some guess work.
Edited by KRider on Sep 30th 2025 at 1:33:29 AM
Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!People were so desperate to make it seem like Superman is a failure on R/ Box Office, it was hilarious.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"If relatively middling box office but big on streaming is going to be the new paradigm, everyone outside of the studios' accounting departments may need to rethink how a movie's financially successful. This was certainly a lot easier to look into back when physical media was still prevalent and streaming hasn't yet existed.
Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!Yeah we def live in different times after COVID.
It's just more convenient for people to wait for big block buster movies to hit streaming because they are already paying for the sub, so it's better they don't waste money on the cinema.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Can't remember where in the streaming top 10 charts BNW and Thunderbolts landed when they debuted on streaming but from what little I remember there wasn't much fanfare in the dirtsheets when they did in comparison to FF.
Moving forward, in the event Spider-man Brand New Day or future movies don't reach past $500 million, instead of immediately calling them flops it'd probably be best to wait when they hit streaming and whether they hit the top 5 at least before making a final judgment.
Edited by KRider on Sep 30th 2025 at 2:18:04 AM
Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
Streaming numbers are usually hidden (so companies dont feel humiliated), even paid. All we know is that it was the top charts and thats easier to plaster online
Pantheon server for all who click here. Lost too much money and time, this coaster ain’t stopping.Unfortunately that's the payoff of focusing more on streaming success over box office success if that is indeed Marvel's future. Streaming profits are that much of a black box and even a black hole that it probably even eats into physical media sales when the blu-rays for MCU movies are released.
Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!I want to comment on this excerpt from that Movie Web article:
What a ridiculous belief. Deadpool & Wolverine had an actual multiverse story and was almost completely set outside of the 616 MCU, and it made made over a billion dollars at the Box Office. Fantastic Four also made significantly more money at the Box Office than The Marvels, Brave New World, and The Thunderbolts which were all set in the 616 MCU.
So clearly being set in an alternate universe isn’t a problem for viewers. Hell, you can make the argument that audiences have grown weary of the 616 MCU.
Edited by Olympos on Sep 30th 2025 at 12:24:34 PM
I don't know. It feels like every time Disney tries makes the conclusion "maybe going full force into streaming is the right way forward" it backfires catastrophically.
Like, the landscape what audiences are going to do is weird nowadays.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:21:32 AM
I wonder if instead of making multiple streaming shows about one character and his new cast and releasing one season of each, they should focus on making one or two big shows that have multiple familiar characters in supporting roles, while still introducing new people.
Like
said, not sure if that's guaranteed to work since what audiences want shifts on a dime, but it's an alternate strategy idea I'm curious about.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:20:48 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."The Multiverse thing is probably going to see its negative affects more further down the line rather than immediately, when they have to write in crossover mechanics every time they want the characters to interact.
Unlike Deadpool - which was a satire of the concept - and Spider-Man - which was a one time homage film - this is them trying to sustain an entire franchise of characters who can only interact via multiverse shenanigans, which is putting a lot of faith in audience investment in the concept.
I'm still warily eyeing Doomsday, because of how much that film going to need to set up and establish all at once.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:25:56 AM
I can't speak for General Audiences, but to me what made Fantastic Four work so well was that it was in an alternate universe. In some ways, I can actually see that being attractive to an audience, as beyond the increased storytelling potential and interesting worldbuilding, it allows for a mostly standalone story. Helps avoid perceived Continuity Lock-Out.
I think it would be interesting if they use the Fantastic Four universe to launch a new main MCU. It would be interesting to see a whole Marvel universe in a 60s-style setting because that is when most of Marvel’s most popular characters and teams debuted, and Fantastic Four would truly be Marvel’s first family.
Edited by Olympos on Sep 30th 2025 at 12:38:20 PM

If it was just the Disney Brand in general, Lilo and Stitch would not have made a billion.
I think there’s legit a general disinterest in the MCU brand.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"