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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#185801: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:16:25 AM

If it was just the Disney Brand in general, Lilo and Stitch would not have made a billion.

I think there’s legit a general disinterest in the MCU brand.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#185802: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:17:46 AM

Huh. Wait, if Bucky’s role got boosted in rewrites, does that mean he may have taken the role that was originally supposed to go to Taskmaster?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 29th 2025 at 11:18:04 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#185804: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:41:29 AM

It adds up since both characters fulfill the roll of uniting the group though in different ways.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#185805: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:58:32 AM

Hmm. So either the internet would be up in arms about unceremoniously killing off a fan-favorite who had been part of the MCU for years, or unceremoniously killing off a character who had their last appearance in the film wasted and needed more time to develop.

…that’s a Morton's Fork if I ever saw one.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#185806: Sep 29th 2025 at 12:08:16 PM

Or they could kill neither?

Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#185807: Sep 29th 2025 at 12:08:35 PM

[up][up] Morton's Fork, thy name is the Marvel Fanbase.

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#185808: Sep 29th 2025 at 12:12:37 PM

[up][up][up] I don't think they were planning on killing Bucky off in the original script.

He just had a more minor role.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#185810: Sep 29th 2025 at 1:44:42 PM

Yeah, thinking about it, it makes the most sense that Bucky's original role might have strictly been as an investigator with the senate trying to take Contessa down. It is noticeable that when Bucky moves into being a part of the team, that subplot just doesn't get an ending at all.

In that view, he may have been originally intended to be the team's... like... Jim Gordon of sorts maybe? A minor-character lawman who is not part of their group, and is slightly antagonistic to them, but is ultimately on their side and helps them do the right thing outside the confines of their mandate?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 29th 2025 at 1:45:24 AM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#185811: Sep 29th 2025 at 5:32:55 PM

I think it's because the GA didn't care about the team people praise Yelena but its not enough for proper buzz especially when them now in an Avengers film hence Bucky.

Just Makima.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#185812: Sep 29th 2025 at 10:27:46 PM

https://movieweb.com/fantastic-four-first-steps-itunes-streaming-success-september-2025/

According to Movieweb, Fantastic Four's hit the top charts in paid streaming. While the actual profits for streaming still aren't known, no longer making a billion dollars at the box office but making it big (however much that may be) on streaming may be Marvel's best path forward.

As far as box office is concerned, WB immediately celebrating Superman's relative success at its opening weekend (which is a huge gamble that ultimately paid off) plus openly stating that $500 million is already a profit for them in contrast to Marvel and Disney's radio silence may have also played a factor in terms of public impression and staving off armchair box office accounting.

On the other hand, waiting for streaming may indeed be profitable at the cost of cannibalizing box office but the actual computations are harder to figure out. The closest known for example is the report months ago that The Acolyte actually drew the biggest viewing numbers for Disney+ but its budget didn't make up for the views while Agatha All Along had a low budget but drew much much bigger views in comparison to its budget. But the only dollar amounts known are the shows' budgets so there's still some guess work.

Edited by KRider on Sep 30th 2025 at 1:33:29 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#185813: Sep 29th 2025 at 10:30:00 PM

People were so desperate to make it seem like Superman is a failure on R/ Box Office, it was hilarious.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#185814: Sep 29th 2025 at 10:36:05 PM

If relatively middling box office but big on streaming is going to be the new paradigm, everyone outside of the studios' accounting departments may need to rethink how a movie's financially successful. This was certainly a lot easier to look into back when physical media was still prevalent and streaming hasn't yet existed.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#185815: Sep 29th 2025 at 10:39:58 PM

Yeah we def live in different times after COVID.

It's just more convenient for people to wait for big block buster movies to hit streaming because they are already paying for the sub, so it's better they don't waste money on the cinema.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#185816: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:00:38 PM

Huh did FF do better on streaming than Thunderbolts?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#185817: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:15:27 PM

Can't remember where in the streaming top 10 charts BNW and Thunderbolts landed when they debuted on streaming but from what little I remember there wasn't much fanfare in the dirtsheets when they did in comparison to FF.

Moving forward, in the event Spider-man Brand New Day or future movies don't reach past $500 million, instead of immediately calling them flops it'd probably be best to wait when they hit streaming and whether they hit the top 5 at least before making a final judgment.

Edited by KRider on Sep 30th 2025 at 2:18:04 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#185818: Sep 29th 2025 at 11:38:51 PM

Streaming numbers are usually hidden (so companies dont feel humiliated), even paid. All we know is that it was the top charts and thats easier to plaster online

Pantheon server for all who click here. Lost too much money and time, this coaster ain’t stopping.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#185819: Sep 30th 2025 at 12:09:42 AM

Unfortunately that's the payoff of focusing more on streaming success over box office success if that is indeed Marvel's future. Streaming profits are that much of a black box and even a black hole that it probably even eats into physical media sales when the blu-rays for MCU movies are released.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Olympos (Private)
#185820: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:11:48 AM

I want to comment on this excerpt from that Movie Web article:

Then there's the film's Multiverse story. The Fantastic Four: First Steps was set in an alternate MCU timeline. Many fans were hoping that the debut of Marvel's First Family would at least be a part of the core timeline. While the film's finale may have brought them to Earth—616, the overall negative reception to the Multiverse Saga likely hampered the film's box office.”

What a ridiculous belief. Deadpool & Wolverine had an actual multiverse story and was almost completely set outside of the 616 MCU, and it made made over a billion dollars at the Box Office. Fantastic Four also made significantly more money at the Box Office than The Marvels, Brave New World, and The Thunderbolts which were all set in the 616 MCU.

So clearly being set in an alternate universe isn’t a problem for viewers. Hell, you can make the argument that audiences have grown weary of the 616 MCU.

Edited by Olympos on Sep 30th 2025 at 12:24:34 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#185821: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:14:45 AM

While the actual profits for streaming still aren't known, no longer making a billion dollars at the box office but making it big (however much that may be) on streaming may be Marvel's best path forward.

I don't know. It feels like every time Disney tries makes the conclusion "maybe going full force into streaming is the right way forward" it backfires catastrophically.

Like, the landscape what audiences are going to do is weird nowadays.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:21:32 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#185822: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:20:06 AM

I wonder if instead of making multiple streaming shows about one character and his new cast and releasing one season of each, they should focus on making one or two big shows that have multiple familiar characters in supporting roles, while still introducing new people.

Like [up] said, not sure if that's guaranteed to work since what audiences want shifts on a dime, but it's an alternate strategy idea I'm curious about.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:20:48 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#185823: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:22:40 AM

Then there's the film's Multiverse story. The Fantastic Four: First Steps was set in an alternate MCU timeline. Many fans were hoping that the debut of Marvel's First Family would at least be a part of the core timeline. While the film's finale may have brought them to Earth—616, the overall negative reception to the Multiverse Saga likely hampered the film's box office.

The Multiverse thing is probably going to see its negative affects more further down the line rather than immediately, when they have to write in crossover mechanics every time they want the characters to interact.

Unlike Deadpool - which was a satire of the concept - and Spider-Man - which was a one time homage film - this is them trying to sustain an entire franchise of characters who can only interact via multiverse shenanigans, which is putting a lot of faith in audience investment in the concept.

I'm still warily eyeing Doomsday, because of how much that film going to need to set up and establish all at once.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2025 at 9:25:56 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#185824: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:29:31 AM

I can't speak for General Audiences, but to me what made Fantastic Four work so well was that it was in an alternate universe. In some ways, I can actually see that being attractive to an audience, as beyond the increased storytelling potential and interesting worldbuilding, it allows for a mostly standalone story. Helps avoid perceived Continuity Lock-Out.

Olympos (Private)
#185825: Sep 30th 2025 at 9:29:44 AM

[up]I think it would be interesting if they use the Fantastic Four universe to launch a new main MCU. It would be interesting to see a whole Marvel universe in a 60s-style setting because that is when most of Marvel’s most popular characters and teams debuted, and Fantastic Four would truly be Marvel’s first family.

Edited by Olympos on Sep 30th 2025 at 12:38:20 PM


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