Marvel Cinematic Universe

Which wound up going absolutely nowhere. Turned out her children were never calling to her, she was not actually haunted by the phantoms of the kids, and she actually concocted a completely unrelated plan to go find a spare set of kids somewhere else in the multiverse.

I would go with Gorr but he had way too little screentime, so instead I'll go with Wanda.

She is and she isn't.

The kids aren't ACTUALLY calling to her speficially, but she is experiencing them when her mind connects to other multiverses where they do in fact exists, which feeds into her desires that caused her to make them in the hex (which was a whole can of worms on its own), which gets worse as she uses the corrupting nature of Darkhold to peek into the multiverse in seach of them.

Edited by MrSeyker on Nov 22nd 2022 at 6:14:19 AM

So it seems that when it comes to the Rick and Morty-jumping-to-Marvel writers, Michael Waldron is universally hated and Jessica Gao is a mixed bag, depending on whether you like the humor or not. With that in mind, I'm really curious how Jeff Loveness will do with Quantumania and Kang Dynasty.

I hate what they did to Wanda....but I love how she did it.

Her business was fucking everyone up, and damned if business wasn't good.

It's a damned shame they didn't tie things better into Wanda Vision.

That sucks, and her being tossed into the Heel pile sucks too.

But she was a damned good Heel.

I wouldn't go around saying universally hated. This board hates what he did with Wanda, but a lot liked what he did in Loki and the Wanda turn wasn't universally hated elsewhere.

Both are ultimately divisive, time will tell how further projects shape opinions on them.

I really liked Waldron's writing for Loki Season 1, even if I wish there were a few more filler episodes of him just screwing around in other timelines and solving time crimes. But wow do I remember people complaining about the writing of Loki when it was releasing episodes, especially where Sylvie was involved.

And as I'm sure I've repeated a few times already, I loved Multiverse of Madness from a spectacle POV, but not from a writing POV.

Whether Waldron is good or bad in my eyes hinges on Secret Wars.

I like to the put word "heroes" in quotes when it comes to the Illuminati. Because with their inept battle tactics, I couldn't help but think, "No wonder 838 Stephen chose to go it alone, these guys were so bad".

Now that Phase 4 is over, I guess I can ask what's the best villain of the phase as a whole when it comes to movies? I feel like Green Goblin is the easy answer for me.

Green Goblin def.

He's already my favorite Spider-Man villain.

Namor and not-Atlantis is a close second.

Wenwu completely redeemed the Mandarin

Yeah, Wenwu and Osborn were my favorites as well. They were both amazing villains in their own ways. My biggest concern for the Shang-Chi sequel is whether it will have a villain that can live up to Wenwu.

I agree with Handsome Rob. I enjoyed Multiverse of Madness with the big caveat of "wow I hate where they took Wanda"

Same. Like, I thought Wanda made a fantastic villain, but I hated that she became one. Very conflicting feelings for me.

Edited by Nightwire on Nov 22nd 2022 at 7:09:41 AM

It is kinda funny how they keep adapting Wanda's insanity arcs.

Like they know how controversy and maligned those are but they keep fucking doing it.

For fucks sake adapt a less inflammatory arc why don't'cha?

Maybe when the X-Men movies finally do something else with Jean instead of putting her in another Dark Phoenix adaptation.

They are cowards who will never adapt the arc where Jean got tentacle arms and was really chill about it

It's not any different from Dark Phoenix, or the ways comics Karen Page is largely known for the arc where she sells Matt out for heroin and the one where she dies.

I have not read the Dark Phoenix arc but is Jean more of a character in the book than the movies?

I'd go Wenwu as the best villain of of Phase 4 too, even with the ending not being so great. Harrow was great too. And also echoing that while I disliked the decisions made with Wanda, the way those decisions were executed was awesome.

I haven't seen Black Panther yet, though, and I'm hearing great things about the villain of that one.

That said, I didn't like most of the other villains in the phase. A lot of interesting ideas with shaky executions. And I outright dislike the way some of the series handled their villains, like No Way Home or Miss Marvel.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 22nd 2022 at 7:49:57 AM

Whatever the case, Wanda should never have gone evil to begin with because all those arcs in the comics where she did go evil generally did a disservice to her, especially Avengers: Disassembled and House of M.

As it were, the only direction I can see them going forward with Wanda is a redemption arc. Of course, even that's gonna be a tough sell. It'd be a cop out to blame everything she did on the Darkhold, but if Wanda herself stays an anti-hero and doesn’t show any regret for what she did in Multiverse of Madness, she'll likely be viewed by many as unlikeable. And this is before the fact that if Wanda's going to get a redemption arc, what was the point of Multiverse of Madness when WandaVision already nicely set her up anyway for a redemption arc? (The only difference being that a redemption arc would've been an easier sell post-WandaVision when Wanda's actions were no worse than the actions some of the other Avengers have done)

I'd suppose the idea was, they could fix an unpopular story, like the MCU has done before (EG Civil War). They just... failed to do so. Whether because it's inherently a bad idea, or because they failed to make the necessary changes, I don't really know.

Okay I checked, here's all the villains for Phase 4

Wandavision: Agatha Harnkess and Director Hayward

Winter Falcon: Flag-Smashers and depending on your mileage Captain America II: John Walker

Loki: TVA and guy beyond everything

Black Widow: Taskmaster and Dreykov

Shang-Chi: Wenwu and his cohorts

Eternals: Ikaris on behalf of the Celestials and that other guy the Deviant

Hawkeye: Echo and Kingpin

Moon Knight: Arthur Harrow

Doc Strange Mo M: Scarlet Witch

Ms. Marvel: Clandestine and some government fucks

Thor 4: Gorr and Zeus somewhat

She-Hulk: Not really a main antagonist but Titania was a reoccurring villain

Werewolf by Night: The Hunters

BP WF: Namor and his army

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 22nd 2022 at 8:13:18 AM

There's also What If: Ultron.

I was considering whether to include that

Yeah What If: Infinity Ultron

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 22nd 2022 at 8:16:06 AM