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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#144551: Jul 21st 2022 at 9:48:55 PM

From what I remember Thor didn't want to conquer the Frost Giants, just retaliate for their incursion on Asgard and intimidate them out of doing anything like that again. He's still acting extremely immature and violent, but it's a lot different from trying to straight-up conquer a world.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#144552: Jul 21st 2022 at 9:52:13 PM

Thor literally talks about wanting to commit genocide as a child in Thor 1 and tries to act on it at the beginning.

And then he literally has a character arc developing out of that. His actions against the Frost Giants in the same movie are impulsive bouts of violence he's chastised for.

Meanwhile, Loki tried wiping them all out and then came the shit he pulls in the first Avengers.

They are not on any equal playing field.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#144553: Jul 21st 2022 at 9:57:28 PM

[up][up] He's introduced as a child talking excitedly about wiping them all out, and when Odin shows up he thinks Odin will help him finish killing them. "Just" intimidating them means invading and killing their king to him.

[up] You're right, it's not an even playing field. Thor was sent to Earth where he quickly met up with some helpful stable people. Loki ended up with Thanos. Thor immediately got welcomed back with everything forgiven as soon as he calmed down, Loki was told he was irredeemable and locked away and his calming down was never even acknowledged.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144554: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:02:12 PM

It should be noted the Frost Giants are at least an enemy territory with a very negative relationship with Asgard.

Meanwhile Midgard is a realm under the watch and protection of Asgard. Loki engaging in a campaign of genocide and conquest against Midgard is even worse.

Especially since he's not even doing it for Asgard, he's campaigning in the name of a universal despot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144555: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:04:28 PM

Personally, I'm tired of rehashing this same debate every time Loki's deeds comes up (and with the same person using the same arguments), particularly when the topic is (to me) so glaringly self-evident that it feels like I'm trying to discuss the colour of the sky.

If you think Loki suffered no characterization shifts across his entire MCU history then I don't know what to tell you, but my point is independent of whatever opinions you may or may not hold on Loki's ethics.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 21st 2022 at 10:07:36 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#144556: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:08:11 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Loki in the first Thor, compared to Loki in The Avengers or Loki in Ragnarok, may as well be a different character entirely, and that's not down to character progression, that's down to vastly different writers with different ideas of the character.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#144557: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:37:55 PM

I interpreted pretty much everything Loki said in the first Thor movie, up until the climax, as being one long con to get himself in position to become king and destroy Jotunheim. Ergo, nothing in later movies contradicts his characterization there, because we hardly get to see anything of the real Loki, just the mask he's put up.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#144558: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:40:13 PM

Though him discovering he is a Frost Giant wasn't part of the plan. He recovered from the shock quickly enough and improvised. He even exploited this to con Laufey and get him into a position where Loki could kill him and make himself look like a hero.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#144559: Jul 21st 2022 at 10:50:22 PM

Others have already said it before me, so all I'll add is Stop Being Stereotypical. Most people will know what I mean by that.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144560: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:45:47 AM

Going back to Walker, I generally saw him as what they were clearly going for: a very flawed man with a lot of trauma that he wasn't managing who wanted to do good, but was clearly overwhelmed, and was pushed off into the deep end by the serum. He did save a carful of innocents, but at the end of the series, he's still been disgraced and has lost basically everything, and a desperate person with nothing left to lose who already isn't the most stable is usually a recipe for becoming far worse.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144561: Jul 22nd 2022 at 6:11:19 AM

Best of Marvel @ SDCC 2022 | Day 1

This is just a recap of cosplay contests and interviews. Doesn't look like anything of significance was announced, but there are three more days to go.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#144562: Jul 22nd 2022 at 6:14:29 AM

I feel like the big stuff will be announced on Saturday, mostly because that is how these tend to go.

The legend has returned.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#144563: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:21:55 AM

[up] Speaking of big stuff, there's buzz going on regarding some title trademarks that Marvel had recently filed. I don't think I should say them for fear of spoilers for Marvel's presentation tomorrow, but I will say this...

The titles they're trademarking are BIGGIES. surprised

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 22nd 2022 at 2:22:45 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144564: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:27:03 AM

Ooh, yeah. I just saw the tweet about it. The villains we're getting are not unexpected. What is interesting are the titles: these will be Avengers films. So we are getting ensemble films again... Feige. You tease.

Edit: And a new Captain America film. That title could mean a number of things, but none of them sound good.


Reminder that day 2 of Marvel's SDCC appearance will be streamed here, starting at 4 PM EDT (20:00 UTC).

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 2:58:52 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144565: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:38:20 PM

Double Post:

Marvel Studios has announced Spider-Man: Freshman Year, an animated series showing the origin story of MCU Peter Parker's powers. It is animated, obviously, because Tom Holland and his co-stars would not be able to pull off looking 15 any more. Release date is in 2024.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:39:45 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#144566: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:42:12 PM

Turns out the above might not be MCU, some of the art they showed featured Doc Ock and Scorpion among his rogues.

On the other hand, Charlie Cox will be voicing a black-suit Daredevil and Nico Minoru will be part of the supporting cast, so that immediately got me re-invested.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:43:18 PM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144567: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:43:23 PM

It'd make things simpler if it wasn't, give it a lot more freedom too

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144568: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:45:39 PM

More announcements:

  • [1] I Am Groot: five animated shorts featuring our favorite floral friend in his younger years. Looks kid-themed. Streaming August 10. Tweet contains a teaser trailer. It starts off with a Lilliput reference: Groot vs. the aphid people. Clever.
  • [2] What-If...? Season 2: coming early 2023.

Edit: Marvel @ SDCC is now live.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:52:48 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#144569: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:52:13 PM

Of all of these, What If is really the thing I'm invested in the most imo.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144570: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:55:35 PM

I wonder if Spider-Man: Freshman Year is tied into Into the Multiverse, then...

  • [1] Marvel Studios’ X-Men ’97, an Original series, streaming Fall 2023. No trailer in the tweet. '97? That can't be MCU canon, then.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:56:10 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144571: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:56:29 PM

I'm glad Groot is just a bunch of shorts.

I could not imagine how that would work as a show.

Also that got made way too late if they are trying to cash in on the Baby Groot faze.

[up] Its a sequel to the classic X-Men cartoon from the 90s, its not supposed to be canon to the MCU.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:57:14 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144572: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:58:51 PM

  • [1] Marvel Zombies, a TV-MA animated series (Marvel's first such series on Disney+). Not clear what the release date is. It's a spinoff of the What-If...? Season 1 episode.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:59:34 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#144573: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:59:06 PM

I'm so happy What If is back. It is low key one of my favorite MCU series.

The legend has returned.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#144574: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:59:11 PM

There's no way on Earth Freshman Year is MCU-canon and the gymnastics needed to make it so would be absolutely bonkers.

That said I honestly don't mind. Was up for a MCU Spidey origin and it's a shame we're not getting that but it still looks like the best Spidey show in a long time.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144575: Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:59:16 PM

To be clear, Fighteer, all of those properties were already known to exist. I think the only new info so far is set dates and concept arts.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 22nd 2022 at 1:00:04 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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