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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144501: Jul 21st 2022 at 2:53:35 PM

The thread is very simply pointing out it wasn't that good of an idea in the first place to operate as if the Avengers barely tolerate one another.

Personally, I think Avengers worked decently well with this aproach showing the growing pains of the team coming together, but by Age of Ultron they really should have been on a better synchrony.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144502: Jul 21st 2022 at 2:54:13 PM

[up][up][up] I mean, it was legitimately a poor writing decision that put later writers in a bad spot for writing character dynamics and emotional stories, hence why people give Whedon a lot of the blame. His perception of the universe and characters was rather uniquely shallow.

As such he legit laid down an awkward foundation for the people who came after them. It’s hard to fault those people for ultimately having to ignore him and try to write strong character stories anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 21st 2022 at 2:56:02 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#144503: Jul 21st 2022 at 2:56:46 PM

Remind me, are there currently any Avengers left, officially?

Or is the team disbanded?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#144504: Jul 21st 2022 at 2:57:45 PM

Remind me, are there currently any Avengers left, officially?

Or is the team disbanded?

Well the stinger at the end of Shang-Chi showed that, at the very least, Banner, Danvers, and Wong are all working together still, so there's *something* organized.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#144505: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:00:12 PM

Oh, right, there was that. Already almost a year ago since I saw that movie. Crazy how time flies by.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144506: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:02:44 PM

[up][up][up] as Pitch Meetings would say "Unclear".

There don't seem to be any official Avengers but Bruce / Carol / Wong are teaming up on something that will hopefully be followed up on in The Marvels.

What I was meaning was it was a mistake to have Age of Ultron and Civil War right next to each other. One of them needed to take a different tack and it doesn't really matter which one, it's something the higher ups like Feige should be planning, not the individual directors.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 21st 2022 at 11:02:57 AM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#144507: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:05:19 PM

[up]X5 and X6

I tend to disagree and think that it's the later efforts to cast them as the bestest of buds which is the mistake. When they were 'we work together if the world's at stake, but that's it' it was a lot more feasible to maintain some separation and the questions of 'where was everyone else while your solo movie was happening' were a lot easier to answer.

And it also tends to end up shortchanging other heroes supporting cast if their bestest buds are all/mostly other heroes.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144508: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:08:12 PM

Reminder that the absence of the Avengers makes for the perfect opportunity for a Thunderbolts movie

Which we are apparently getting

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144509: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:08:32 PM

@Who Are The Avengers Now:

Hard to say. It isn’t too clear whether there’s any distinction between The Avengers: The Team, and the global peacekeeping organization that Wong, Okoye, Carol, Bruce and so on are running anymore.

Like, whether that organization has an “A Team” that handles big problems and that is effectively the Avengers, or whether the whole thing is the Avengers a la Justice League Unlimited.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:09:16 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144510: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:11:03 PM

[up][up] Eww. Okay, I hope we're getting a more old school Villains find out "good feels good and genuinely convert" style thunderbolts and not a "we ripped off Suicide Squad" style Thunderbolts.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#144511: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:14:51 PM

I mean, Suicide Squad already ripped of Guardians of the Galaxy, so that would be kinda redundant tongue

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144512: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:23:04 PM

Comics are very complex web of them all ripping off each other. So it's true to the source material!

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#144513: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:25:39 PM

I hope we're getting a more old school Villains find out "good feels good and genuinely convert" style thunderbolts and not a "we ripped off Suicide Squad" style Thunderbolts.

Depends on who's on the team and what their goals are. If Zemo and Walker end up together, I can imagine a whole lot of Teeth-Clenched Teamwork going on.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#144516: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:31:18 PM

If there isn't one already, there should be a video analysis of how Joss Weadon's style affected the Avenger's dynamic in the MCU. From what I've read here it sounds like an interesting topic of discussion.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144517: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:44:33 PM

Ironically the modern Thunderbolts comics largely rips off the Suicide Squad for the most part

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#144518: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:46:55 PM

[up][up]I would find that interesting, but given Whedon's current status, I think it's just an invitation to flaming, regardless of how the analysis went.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#144519: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:48:34 PM

I guess the original Thunderbolts is a concept with a limited amount of times you can do it without running out of villains.

It is however, a much more unique take than the Suicide Squad one.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144520: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:51:09 PM

The original Thunderbolts is largely focused on character development and arcs via the ongoing redemption of the various members

Meanwhile Suicide Squad is a more episodic concept meaning one thing you can do more while the other requires a lot of focus and time

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144521: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:51:56 PM

The problem with the mcu is they have very few villains left alive. A lot of the potential candidates seem to be on the anti-heroic side already. (U S Agent, Yelena)

Be interesting to have Zemo and more heroic figure (Hawkeye would be the most associated with them in the comic) having a metaphorical fight for the souls of the waverers that make up the rest of the team.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 21st 2022 at 11:52:34 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144522: Jul 21st 2022 at 3:56:08 PM

I think it'll probably end up as a hybrid of the original Thunderbolts pitch and the Dark Avengers days (i.e. government-sponsored avengers replacement full of villains).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#144523: Jul 21st 2022 at 4:00:08 PM

So the government knows they're ex villains but they're played up as heroes to the public and get into the good feels good thing?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144524: Jul 21st 2022 at 4:19:25 PM

We've also got at least a few people yet to be introduced who I could reasonably see being on it. Ares and Daken come to mind.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

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