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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144451: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:11:35 PM

Mephisto is also effectively unkillable and will always be around.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144452: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:16:23 PM

If they wanted to go big cosmic event, they could introduce Annihilus and the Negative Zone in Fantastic Four, then build to Annihilation. Obviously without Thanos, of course.

For non-comic readers, Annihilation was the huge fuck-off crossover event that basically resurrected Cosmic Marvel from waning interest. It happened alongside Civil War and involved basically everybody under the sun except the characters on Earth, who were too busy beating each other up about the Registration Act to help save the universe.

The basic premise is that Annihilus, leader of the Negative Zone with a long-established enmity towards the regular universe, launches a full-scale invasion with a colossal armada the likes of which has never been seen before - With a planet-crushing super-weapon powered by an imprisoned Galactus, Devourer of Worlds at its head. The Annihilation Wave, as Annihilus's forces are called, sweeps across space, plunging the entire universe into a bloody war for survival.

The threat posed by Annihilus is so grave that all of the other conflicts cease to matter. (Except on Earth, where they never even find out this is happening and keep punching each other. Because Earth is a backwoods trailer park.) Kree, Skrull, Nova, doesn't matter. Heralds of Galactus stand side-by-side with Kree Accusers to repel the Annihilation forces.

It obviously wouldn't be for Phase Four, but it could be a pretty fantastic phase-ending crossover film to build to. With different characters, of course; Like, one of the big Holy Shit moments in the comic is Drax finally achieving his goal and slaying Thanos, and for obvious reasons that can't translate to the film.

But we've got Captain Marvel and the Guardians of the Galaxy to work with. Plus, Marvel's been building up their Friendly Skrulls, and both Xandar and the Kree Empire are well-established. Some other things that I think would be a good idea to put on the Road to Annihilation, so to speak, would be:

  • A Fantastic Four film that introduces Annihilus.
  • A Nova film, giving the Nova Corps a more proper introduction to a newcomer like Dick Rider or Sam Alexander.
  • Fucking Galactus. Somewhere. Make that a phase-ending crossover movie in and of itself. Galactus comes to Earth and must be driven off.
  • Maybe a Silver Surfer show?
  • Introducing Quasar somewhere. Easiest Quasar to adapt would be Phyla-Vell, daughter of Mar-Vell, since she would already have a foot in the door of audience interest. Will depend on what The Marvels is doing with Kamala's Bangle/The Nega-Bands/The Quasar Bands/Whatever it is.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#144453: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:17:04 PM

Any reason Red Ghost couldn't be reimagined as a Latverian scientist, with hints that Doom is the Bigger Bad behind them?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144454: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:19:34 PM

[up][up]Isn't this assuming that The Marvels will be a self-contained film (possible Quasar Bands aside)? I don't think that's the case, because Feige has outright said that the next batch of MCU films will reveal the primary Phase 4 villain.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144455: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:22:43 PM

[up]x4 It's far too early for Mephisto anyway. Spider-Man doesn't have a marriage to bargain away and given the way NWH ended may never have. (of course NWH already did the One More Day beats so it might be redundant)

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 21st 2022 at 8:23:17 PM

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144456: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:26:58 PM

I feel like Blastaar could be given a different characterization with Annihilus being an eldritch horror hive king that wants to eat everything and turn the universe into one giant nest. Perhaps he's not really a villain, just an ancient guardian trying to keep Annihilus sealed in the Negative Zone because the F4 are dangerously close to "fuck around and find out".

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144457: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:27:59 PM

I don’t think I like Galactus as a phase ending threat - that he isn’t really a great arc character. Galactus is, by design, an incredibly simple character: as a force of nature, he arrives, nearly destroys X planet, heroes convince / outwit / compel him to go away. The most compelling part about him isn’t the complexity and enormity of his threat (there’s loads of guys who can destroy the earth) but that he’s literally a force of nature (as in, the universe needs him around), has Blue-and-Orange Morality, and yet can still be reasoned with. His lore, basically. He shines as a recurring small story threat.

Imo he works best as a thing heroes face in an individual story rather than the threat in a big, multistage story, and if you do want to do a big, multistage story there are better characters to adapt for that purpose. I’d say they have a single film where the guardians or FF encounter Galactus as main villain then in the stinger they have him be captured by Annihilus or something setting up Annihilation Wave, similar to Phase 1 Loki.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 21st 2022 at 12:30:30 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144458: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:39:39 PM

It's far too early for Mephisto anyway. Spider-Man doesn't have a marriage to bargain away and given the way NWH ended may never have. (of course NWH already did the One More Day beats so it might be redundant)

Mephisto's rich character history being boiled down to "lel spider-man's marriage" is one of the saddest things to happen in comics.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#144459: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:44:42 PM

I figure when the writer was making their choice it was either make a deal with literal Satan or time travel,and literal Satan was within grabbing distance

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144460: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:47:52 PM

...Um, yeah, have to agree with Gaon, Mephisto didn't just pop up into existence in OMD to do the deal. He was an established character before that point.

Even has a son, somebody called Blackheart?

Seriously, this is just so bizarre. Does nobody do any research on him before that point? Or afterwards?

It's like if I based my entire knowledge of Fire Emblem: Three Houses on out-of-context lines compilations I found on Youtube. And tried to make a serious point about it, not some shallow non-joke.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 12:51:29 PM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#144461: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:50:26 PM

Okay, guys hear me out. You're going to hate what I have to say here, but please hear me out.

What if...Mephisto is actually a regular guy who gets introduced in a movie or two, who through some magical and/or Freak Lab Accident, transforms into the literal incarnation of Satan himself?

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 21st 2022 at 12:50:38 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144462: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:51:53 PM

It's a low blow I know but it's not my fault Marvel used him in a memetically terrible retcon.

Of course it's not his only story but I'm not going to read through his wiki page a due dilligence to making a damn joke am I?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144463: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:55:35 PM

[up]I'd say it's your fault for making a shallow, repetitive, and inaccurate joke like that.

If that was supposed to be a joke, the delivery left something to be desired as to what was supposed to be funny.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 12:58:22 PM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144464: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:56:32 PM

I would accept Mephisto showing up in the context of a Ghost Rider introduction. That would be the perfect place for him. It's just that all of the "Mephisto confirmed!" memes around social media are causing me Hype Aversion.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:57:07 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144465: Jul 21st 2022 at 12:58:25 PM

Double Post: Marvel Live at SDCC 2022 is... now live.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:59:36 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144466: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:07:29 PM

I'd say it's your fault for making a shallow, repetitive, and inaccurate joke like that.

If that was supposed to be a joke, the delivery left something to be desired as to what was supposed to be funny.

It's not that deep. Never Live It Down is a YMMV item for a reason.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144467: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:12:33 PM

[up]Saying that a joke is shallow is not the same as demanding that jokes be deep. Something can not be deep and also not be the same 1D joke that's been told over and over, especially when the joke is a serious statement I've seen before. A joke can get dull without a new way to spin it or a new type of joke about it.

...Place your bets, everybody! How long are we going to keep talking about the joke? I give it three posts.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 1:13:00 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144468: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:13:11 PM

With Mephisto eventually coming, how should Illyana Rasputin be handled? She's too major a figure in Magic Marvel to not show up, but her character is very close to the turn Wanda took. Maybe it could be deliberately played up like that - she knows exactly what happened with Wanda, and is terrified of something like that happening to her and knows that there is something deeply wrong with her and wants to Screw Destiny, but the nature of her powers (and Belasco's influence) seems to inexorably be dragging her towards evil. The difference would be that while Wanda had very little insight and what little she had just made her worse, Illyana has all the insight in the world and is desperately trying to avoid turning into a monster, but keeps going further down the rabbit hole anyways.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144469: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:13:13 PM

"It's not that deep" is slang for "it's not that big a deal".

Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:13:39 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144470: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:15:39 PM

[up]Well, I wasn't doing much, Synch? This is one of my chill phases. I just said it wasn't a funny joke, that's all.

Sorry if this comes off as rude but I'd like to move to move on from this topic.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 1:19:02 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144471: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:18:16 PM

I'm over here munching popcorn. "One More Day" always seems to bring out so many fascinating people and their fascinating points of view. FYI, the "fascinating" part is sarcasm. The popcorn part is genuine.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 21st 2022 at 4:19:17 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144472: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:19:37 PM

[up]Can I have some of that popcorn? It's been years since I tasted any and I know I have some at home but...eh, I don't want to get up and make it.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 1:20:52 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144473: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:20:44 PM

For my part I didn't even register that it was supposed to be a joke. A lot of people unironically seem to forget that Mephisto did so much more than the marriage shindig.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#144474: Jul 21st 2022 at 1:21:36 PM

[up]Would you do the forum a favor and educate us, Professor Gaon? It should be very enlightening.

[down]I'd prefer green. It's my favorite color.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 21st 2022 at 1:24:21 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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