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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144151: Jul 14th 2022 at 9:31:20 AM

[up][up] How is it meaningless? If a role is flexible enough so that any ethnicity can play him (like the Jim Gordon example from The Batman), then that should be a good thing for more representation, right?

That's not what I meant. I have no objection to racelifts.

What I mean is, if you want to compare numbers of black characters in each universe that are potential representation and you include Racelifts both universes have infinite number of possibilities so the comparison is pointless.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144152: Jul 14th 2022 at 9:47:08 AM

Whether a company could conceivably racelift is kind of irrelevant if the company isn’t generally interested in doing so. MW’s point, if I understand it right, is that DC has generally been more willing to do so than Marvel has thus far, and has done it far more often with characters who were far more visible.

I tend to think race lifts are a band-aid and mostly just helpful in the short term, though, so <shrug>.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 14th 2022 at 10:22:55 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#144153: Jul 14th 2022 at 10:11:44 AM

Ghost was black?

uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#144154: Jul 14th 2022 at 10:21:38 AM

Well mixed race at least, like her actress.

Though if we are on the topic of ethnic representation. I dont think there has been a MCU property with a latino lead yet. And with Agents of SHIELD pretty much decanonized, I think America Chavez is curently the only character that would qualify as a latin superhero.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Jul 14th 2022 at 7:28:35 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#144155: Jul 14th 2022 at 10:43:37 AM

Any candidates? I think the Tigers, but I dunno how Marvel would run two cat hero properties at the same time. Or maybe Sam!Nova.

Wake me up at your own risk.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#144156: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:00:31 AM

...we literally just had Moon Knight come out. With Oscar Isaac as the lead character.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#144157: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:04:49 AM

[up][up]Aside from the ones you mentioned could they of course bring back Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider.

There are actually not that many who are what youd call headliners, most are more in supporting and sidekick roles like Reptil, Sunspot and the Joaquin Torres incarnation of Falcon.

Well there is Silverclaw but she is a lot more obscure and maybe a bit stereotypical.

[up]I honestly had kind of a brain fart on that one since I was just thinking about the comic incarnations of characters, but yea I guess he counts as the first one.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144158: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:05:15 AM

The DC films can have all the "potential" they want. When all those characters actually actually make it to the screen, call me.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144159: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:25:15 AM

There are actually not that many who are what youd call headliners, most are more in supporting and sidekick roles like Reptil, Sunspot and the Joaquin Torres incarnation of Falcon.

Sunspot once famously took over A.I.M. and realigned them as a super-science think-tank for a new Avengers team he founded. I'd call him a potential headliner.

Hell, they could do exactly that right now if they wanted. What ever happened to Killian's corporate assets after he exploded? He was running a legitimate business. Somebody has all of A.I.M.'s stuff right now.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 14th 2022 at 11:28:42 AM

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HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144160: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:44:07 AM

Maya Lopez may also count as Latina, plus there's always Robbie Reyes. Sunspot would double as an additional bit of Afro-Latin representation, which is important given how much of an issue Afro-Latin and Asian-Latin erasure are in popular media. Rictor also exists and could be given a larger role.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Jul 14th 2022 at 11:46:16 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144161: Jul 14th 2022 at 11:45:17 AM

What about Sam Alexander?

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uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#144162: Jul 14th 2022 at 12:05:45 PM

Sunspot is unfortunately usually seen as just another member of the various minor X teams, but it is true that the Avengers Idea Mechanics have a lot of potential for him to be more then that, even if it was kinda cut short by Secret Empire.

[up]We know that there is some sort of Nova project in devellopment, no word on if Sam will be in it yet though, everything I can find on it is only talking about Richard Rider.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144163: Jul 14th 2022 at 12:10:18 PM

Sam Alexander’s one of those infamously hated characters, isn’t he?

Not that the MCU doesn’t love salvaging thing people originally hated.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144164: Jul 14th 2022 at 12:15:49 PM

Reptil is perfect to be a lead.

His power is that he turns into dinosaurs.

That's fucking genius, what kid wouldn't live that?

Add to that his recently introduced family (who all have magic powers based of mexican mythology) and you have a nice supporting cast to hold a movie.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144165: Jul 14th 2022 at 12:20:17 PM

Wouldn't be hard for Sunspot to be given a vastly expanded role and just not have Sunfire exist in the MCU, especially considering Sunfire's long history of quasi-yellow peril issues. You could even enfold a bit of Sunfire into Sunspot by making him part-Japanese, which would absolutely be realistic for a Brazilian.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144166: Jul 14th 2022 at 1:09:24 PM

[up][up][up] He is the character created by Jeph Loeb after all.

To my recollection he first appeared in Ultimate Spider-Man where he was widely despised with being an unlikable mega douchebag and considering how everyone acts in that show thats saying something.

He did an ongoing in the comics in the comics where fortunately he's a lot nicer. Laster a fairly long time at 32 issues and an extra 11 issue one the following year it ended where the character managed to gain some fans.

But its notable that after the cancellation of the ongoing after that at 7 issues Sam has become very demoted in prominence, appearing in only the Champions. Its believe that since Jeph Loeb's loss of prominence in the company that Marvel has also lost interest in Sam.

It is fairly notable that Richard Rider has regained his prominence in the cosmic titles while Sam only appears in Champion ongoings that keep getting cancelled early.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 14th 2022 at 1:09:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#144167: Jul 14th 2022 at 5:59:31 PM

Sam is definitely older than the Ultimate Spider-Man show, by at least a couple years. I remember people were complaining about how much they hated him already when he was announced to be in it.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144168: Jul 14th 2022 at 6:18:52 PM

Aside from the ones you mentioned could they of course bring back Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider.

Or introduce the Alejandra Ghost Rider.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144169: Jul 14th 2022 at 6:19:25 PM

[up][up] Ah I'm always unsure whether Sam came before or after the show.

Okay then yeah he got a lot hate from Richard Rider fans, doesn't help this was the era of Bendis Guardians run where it kept retconning and ignoring Thanos Imperative. The end of Bendis Go G run even had the Nova Corps suddenly appearing despite the Corps still being extinct by that point.

He did develop a fanbase with the Duggan ongoing but after that Marvel seems to have lost interesting in him. Tellingly that second ongoing of his, the 11 issue one, around the middle Sam declares he's going to find his father and the Avengers offer their help. Ya wanna know what happens afterwards? Civil War II.

Yup the book got interrupted by a Civil War II tie-in, got cancelled, and that whole plotline about Sam finding his former Nova officer father Jesse Alexander has not been followed up since. That was like 6 years ago.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 14th 2022 at 6:25:06 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144170: Jul 14th 2022 at 6:20:43 PM

Sam Alexander’s one of those infamously hated characters, isn’t he?

He's not that hated, he has his fans. Though much like Red Hulk, he was better liked after Loeb was off the book.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144171: Jul 14th 2022 at 6:38:27 PM

Sam is definitely older than the Ultimate Spider-Man show, by at least a couple years.

Nope. He made his first appearance in comics just mere months before the release of the show. His first appearance was in a Point One one shot in November 2011; Ultimate Spider-Man premiered in April 2012.

Edited by Akirakan on Jul 14th 2022 at 8:38:48 AM

IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#144172: Jul 15th 2022 at 1:53:38 AM

I feel like his case (invented for a show, the comic creators liked him so much they put him in the comics that wound up releasing before the show due to Animation Lead Time) isn't unique. YJ Aqualad?

This place is careless.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#144173: Jul 15th 2022 at 8:53:32 AM

There's Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), who the comics writers and the Batman TV show writers worked together on, so she'd debut in both around the same time.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144174: Jul 15th 2022 at 9:44:00 AM

White Tiger also had the same process. They create Ava for USM, and editorial requested Christos Gage to add her to Avengers Academy's rooster before the release of USM.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#144175: Jul 15th 2022 at 9:46:05 AM

Oh so that’s why she got moderate focus that never went much of anywhere

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