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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Either way, as I said before, the fact that we have to make due with the character being replaced rather than the character being allowed to grow their mythos like other characters in the setting is still a shame.
If Sam hadn't been revealed to be the star of Cap 4 I'd be more upset about it, but it's still noticeable that they're taking a clear "one at a time" approach to the Black Panther franchise.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 13th 2022 at 5:23:14 AM
- make do
Beyond that, I too don't know how else to unpack that. Responding to "this black character who inspired people getting removed is a blow" with "there will be other black characters" feels -
Of course it's a blow. I never tried to say it wasn't a blow. But it is a blow to lose Boseman as well. Recasting T'challa doesn't make it less of a blow though. Especially if your next casting for him hypothetically fucked things up and ruined tbe franchise.
This is my point: recasting is as much a gamble with the character's legacy as an actual legacy character.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 13th 2022 at 1:26:58 PM
I mean, sure. My point was never about how risky or not an option it was (in fact, it being less risky not to recast probably contributed to Marvel Studios choosing to do so - it is a film studio, after all). It was about the optics of how making that decision looks in context to what's around it, and how the audience now ultimately has to deal with the message sent by that choice.
To echo one of the first things I said in this convo, this make perfect sense as a decision Hollywood would make, but ignores the context surrounding the character and ultimately wasn't the wisest choice they could've made.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 13th 2022 at 5:29:39 AM
The optics and context of recasting him wouldn't be good, either. Marvel Studios just made a big to-do of retiring Steve and Tony since their actors will no longer be playing the roles. If they then recast T'Challa, it could send the message that they see black actors as being less important and more interchangeable than their white counterparts.
Especially since they've only recast two parts before (both from the MCU's earliest days), one of whom was also a black man, with rumors that Ike Perlmutter advocated for the recasting because people wouldn't be able to tell one black man apart from another.
Edited by RavenWilder on Jul 13th 2022 at 8:30:18 AM
Ideally would've preferred a recast, but since that's out of the park... also really hoping it's not Shuri, and have been even before the Letitia Wright controversy (which hasn't helped).
To me one of the most appealing things about T'Challa is that while he was capable of being humorous, as the Black Panther he conducted himself with dignity and seriousness, and that's something I think is important to keep, especially since other projects have really been dialing up the jokes. And while I don't have anything against Shuri as a character, I feel like making her Black Panther either means a) turning Black Panther into another quippy irreverent superhero or b) changing Shuri to take things more seriously, and I'm not a fan of either of those.
And yeah, Shuri was Black Panther in the comics as well, but Shuri's also by and large a completely different character in the comics.
With that in mind, my personal preferences for replacement Black Panther go as such, in order from most to least preferred and keeping in mind that W'Kabi is apparently not an option.
1. Okoye
2. M'Baku
3. Nakia
4. Bring in a completely new character (maybe a very heavily reworked Wakandan-native Kevin Cole? I have some ideas...)
5. Leave the mantle empty.
6. Shuri.
7. Ross
8. Bring back Killmonger and have him be Black Pan- nope, can't even Sarcasm Mode that one, I genuinely have a hard time believing that people actually want this. I don't agree with the decision not to recast, but considering the spirit in which the decision was made this last one just feels horrifically tone-deaf.
Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 13th 2022 at 10:25:44 AM
I could see them using the trauma of T'Challa's death to be a Cynicism Catalyst for Shuri to become a more serious and acerbic character like the comics before transitioning the focus away from her, perhaps with her realizing maybe the position shouldn't be hereditary anymore and dispersing it amongst the Wakandan cast.
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...But the position isn't hereditary in the movies. At least, not only.
Like presumably if the movie opens with a dead T'Challa, Queen Ramonda and the council (on which M'Baku sits) will be running Wakanda, without a Black Panther. I mean, I'd be all for an action movie with Angela Basset starring- Angela Basset is the Baddest Bitch, after all, but I don't think that's where they're going.
Shuri, or Nakia or whoever could become Black Panther without necessarily becoming the ruler of Wakanda. In fact, with the previous movie having gotten rid of the heart-shaped herb, there's less of a reason to have a single protector of Wakanda and more reason to rely on teamwork and cooperation from various parts of Wakandan society.
Not literally, but it's implied that while theoretically anyone could become the Black Panther as long as they took the herb, it traditionally went to the royal family. This movie might have them decide Wakanda should move away from a monarchic system in favor of a republic or a constitutional monarchy in line with the comics.
Considering any of the tribes could challenge the royal family for claim over rhe habit and presumably the claim to the throne, it's pretty impressive to think that the Black Panther has been consistently T'Challa's family all these generations stretching back to the very beginning of Wakanda.
Now that's a family legacy.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Yeah, it's weird that it's implied that's what has happened for...10,000 years.
I suppose it could be one of those retroactive things where like...let's say M'Baku beat T'Challa. Either T'Challa yielded or was killed, either way. M'Baku is now King of Wakanda. Presumably, his children would be princes and princesses and thus, get first crack at being the ruler next. I guess it would depend on the King or Queen, but maybe if they won they'd let the defeated family live on as members of the Golden Tribe? Sort of a cadet branch sort of thing.
So the Golden Tribe may have been the most mixed of all the tribes in Wakanda, which would be a neat touch. Instead of one family winning every challenge for ten thousand years, it's just that the idea of a family-not the bloodline, but kinship beyond that level.
That's my head canon from now on.
That makes sense.
I can imagine it’s kinda like branch families where each of the tribes are probably related to each other on various degrees especially if there’s a lot of intermarriage involved.
M’Baku may be T’Challa’s very distant cousin.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 13th 2022 at 11:53:32 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."The tribes might also function as occupational castes of sorts. Anyone who wins the throne gets adopted into the Golden Tribe, and their children are by default treated as members. The Golden Tribe avoids familial bloat by having a fairly narrow and direct line of descent with distant cousins automatically belong to one of the other tribes, but since it's pretty easy to just fight for the throne, inheritance-based succession crises aren't as much of a problem.
You were saying that replacing him in universe sends a bad message. I think it's an equally bad message to think there's only one black character that anyone will care about.
The problem is that Marvel frankly is way behind DC in terms of positive black representation. For post-Panther reps, we have Blade, Ironheart, and Monica Rambeau coming up, along with Sam Wilson being the new Cap, and then what? Storm, maybe Jericho Drumm, but I don't think he'll make anywhere near as much of an impact, Hobie Brown if Sony doesn't insist on keeping him for themselves, and I guess they could depict Hector Ayala as Afro-Puerto Rican. Beyond that, I can't think of much. Sony would never let the MCU have Miles Morales, that's for goddamn sure.
Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Jul 14th 2022 at 8:33:57 AM
Okay?
I don't really want to restart that argument tbh. But Marvel needs more representation is absolutely true but would equally true whether they recast or replaced T'Challa wouldn't it?
As to DC has more black representation... does it? Do you mean in the movies, TV, comics or what? In the movies I can only think Cyborg? And he's only had a team slot. (There also Aquaman and upcoming Black Adam but they're other ethnicities I think?)
I'm not at all familiar with the Arrow verse and other tv shows though.
DC has more potential reps in the DCEU. Steel, Kaldur'ahm, Black Lightning, John Stewart, Static, Jason Rusch, Michael Holt, Bumblebee, Mal Duncan, Rocket, Vixen, Michael Lane... they've got so many to choose from, not to mention the likelihood of Barbara Gordon in the Reeves-verse being black and the ease with which they could do the same to Nightwing or Jean-Paul Valley. The only one from Marvel with any potential that I forgot was Night Thrasher, and I don't think he'll take off like Panther anyways.
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Marvel isn't exactly averse to Race Lift. Uatu the Watcher, Ghost, Heimdall, Kang, Baron Mordo and Electro were all originally white, but became black in the MCU. In Ghost's case, she was also originally a man.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 14th 2022 at 8:59:49 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."![]()
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You're comparing characters not in development to many Marvel already have done or are doing though.
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Rhodey's staring in an Armour Wars Adaption.
And there are probably enough black X-Men alone to equal that list if you want to make it a numbers game which I don't think it should be.
More representation in DC or Marvel is good to me. It's not a competition, it's okay to like both.
etA: extra arrows and
Yeah if you start to bring racelift into it. Anyone can be anything, so it's meaningless.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 14th 2022 at 5:01:17 PM
Sam Wilson has a show and an upcoming movie, Rhodey's got an upcoming show, and we also have Ironheart coming out soon. Things are starting to look up for black leading characters in the MCU, now that the central Myth Arc is finished and half the audience doesn't care anymore.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

This idea no one will possibly care about a non t'challa BP feels like a self fulfilling prophecy. Write a good film; people will enjoy it. That's it, that's the secret.