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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143876: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:41:26 PM

I mean, covid was a pretty big break.

Maybe that's why they are overcompensating these last two years...

Uni cat
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143877: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:48:50 PM

It was what a year of no releases? But they will still being made/releases hyped, they just kept pushing the releases back. Not quite the same as what I meant.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143878: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:54:51 PM

I feel Phase 4 is just aimed at several things. It's scaling back to Phase 1's approach where everything was nebulous until Avengers, it's just you can't' redo Phase 1. The universe grew a lot bigger.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143879: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:58:06 PM

My assumption is that all this build-up is for two big events: Dark Avengers vs Young Avengers, and Multiverse War.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143880: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:03:16 PM

I feel like we just hit that inevitable creative slump.

The Marvel formula is becoming more and more tired and is increasingly forming a larger stranglehold on the films, especially the films like Eternals that are trying to do some different.

They gotta advance, evolve, do something really different.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143881: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:06:39 PM

They need to do the impossible. Hire Martin Scorsese.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 10th 2022 at 7:06:48 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143882: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:09:11 PM

They have something better: Sam Raimi. Just point him in a direction and let him loose.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#143883: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:18:10 PM

I wonder how much of Multiverse of Madness's problems are his fault and how much is Executive Meddling.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 10th 2022 at 10:18:32 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143884: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:21:39 PM

Phase 4 seems to be showing a trend of uncaring and/or Jerkass Gods. From Moon Knight's Khonshu to The Eternals' Celestials to a whole bunch of pantheons in Thor: Love and Thunder, the gods of the MCU really don't look good.

It's almost as if it's answering the question "Why didn't any gods try to stop Thanos?"

With the answer being that gods are assholes.

Edited by M84 on Jul 10th 2022 at 10:22:37 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#143885: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:27:02 PM

Marvel does play the long game with its plot points. Coming off of the last decade of plot points getting paid off it a good chunk of why Phase 4 feels aimless. Once we get to first big crossover film then we'll have a better understanding of what half the projects so far are even doing.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143886: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:37:07 PM

I will say the increasing wackiness and critiques over Love and Thunder's humor reminds me of the original Batman movie's escalation from the first Tim Burton film to...... Batman and Robin....

Makes me wonder especially with the trademark MCU humor if we are reaching that fine line where it goes from wacky to just plain stupid.

From the looks of it Thor is already edging that point to some degree.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 10th 2022 at 7:38:43 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143887: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:39:30 PM

I wonder how much of it is the MCU and how much of it is Taika Waititi's Creator Thumbprint with Protection from Editors. Could be a mix of both with Feige deliberately going for directors like James Gunn and Taika Waititi who have that kind of style to begin with.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#143888: Jul 10th 2022 at 7:59:11 PM

Remember that Thor’s reputation among general audiences improved as his films got wackier. Whatever Love and Thunder is, it’s not The Dark World.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 10th 2022 at 10:14:19 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#143889: Jul 10th 2022 at 8:08:37 PM

I've seen a trend of some people trying to rehabilitate the first two Thor movies. This trend started before Love and Thunder, but it does seem to have become stronger as a slight backlash against the direction Ragnarok took. Mind, so far it's only been the first film some people agree has been overlooked to a degree, and I've been a defender of the first Thor for a while. The Dark World will never be rehabilitated tongue

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#143890: Jul 10th 2022 at 8:15:14 PM

I like both of em. The Waititi films are better, obviously, but the other two are pretty good in their own ways... the first one moreso, granted.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
CheapMarzipan A Low Cost Confection Since: Dec, 2020 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
A Low Cost Confection
#143891: Jul 10th 2022 at 8:27:23 PM

The Dark World is mostly boring but I really like the Odinson-family dynamics in it. The stuff with Loki and Frigga is a standout, obviously, but I really like Odin's characterization in it as well. The way he dismisses Jane as beneath the Asgardians is pretty reminiscent of Loki's speeches about humanities' inferiority in the first Avengers and the satisfied expression he has when he talks about how Bor killed all the Dark Elves feels a lot like Thor's warmongering at the very beginning of the first movie. I think it's pretty clear where Thor and Loki got it from.

And the attitude fits pretty well with what we later learned about Odin in Ragnarok, even though I know that particular plot point wasn't thought up yet.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Jul 10th 2022 at 10:28:13 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143892: Jul 10th 2022 at 8:29:00 PM

Dark World had a lot of good moments that did not really cohere into a good movie. Usually blamed on the Loki rewrites.

Although, its a shame that Malekith didn't have more of his comic self and that the rewrites for Loki weren't more extensive.

There's a common thread you can draw between Loki and Malekith thats just sitting on the table.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#143893: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:15:10 PM

TDW is definitely still pretty limp and I always knew was a lower rung MCU work so at least I wasn’t disappointed when I saw it. It’s not even abysmal, it’s just weak with some good stuff between Loki and his folks mixed in, plus some nice scenery and action beats. Plus it’s got Chris Evans as Loki as Captain America for a little bit, so that’s something to look back on fondly.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#143894: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:17:36 PM

TDW would have been better under its original director and story.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143895: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:29:45 PM

TDW is the most created-by-committee movie out of all the first three phases' movies, and it shows. Together that makes it too competent to be bad but it's also extremely boilerplate and dull as opposed to truly offensively bad (which can nevertheless still be more interesting than the former in its own way).

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:08:21 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143896: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:38:52 PM

[up][up] Man imagine the universe that got that original story

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143897: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:42:45 PM

I haven't heard a lot about the original version, aside from Malekith stuff being cut for Loki stuff. Was the plot very different?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143898: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:43:16 PM

Unused concept art suggests Valkyrie was going to appear.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143899: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:48:12 PM

I think the first Thor is pretty solid, and it seems to me like Kenneth Branagh would be able to make a greater Thor film in a sequel and with more creative freedom. TDW is weak and generic though it has its bright spots. TIH is the worst film of the first few phases by a country mile but that one I'd blame more directly on the director as Louis Leterrier just isn't that good when it comes to directing films.

Re: Sam Raimi and Doctor Strange, I'd generally say that it's a miracle Multiverse Of Madness even works as much as it does. By all accounts Raimi and Waldron got put on the film in a ridiculously tight schedule (as Marvel didn't want to delay it again after Derrickson and Cargill left, their script going with them) to the point Raimi and Waldron were rewriting the script as it was being filmed. It's a completely insane charge to put on a director (particularly one who hadn't directed a film in a decade) and it's a testament to Raimi's experience in guerilla filmmaking that he managed to put out a film that's at least competent on time. The COVID delays are the only reason Raimi and Waldron didn't end up going into shooting without a script (as opposed to a unfinished script that got rehauled during filming, as it happened) by the looks of it.

If Marvel Studios has any shred of sanity in them they should try to get Raimi on-board for the inevitable sequel and give him a proper pre-production this time. It's a repeat of the situation with Ant-Man with Peyton Reed having to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat after Wright's departure amid Executive Meddling.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#143900: Jul 10th 2022 at 9:50:50 PM

TDW has my favorite characterizations for the Asgardian royal family (aside from Thor's mopiness being attributed entirely to missing Jane).


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