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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143851: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:45:26 PM

[up][up][up]Darcy outright acknowledges that Pietro looks different as soon as he shows up, it's established to be an in-universe recast from go.

Fuck I didn't even want Peters' as alternate universe Pietro, I didn't and still don't want the bulk of the Fo X-Men anywhere near the MCU. But this was not and would not have been the same as recasting Rhodey just based on how it unfolds in-universe even if they'd used any other actor.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:45:52 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143852: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:55:23 PM

When Wandavision was coming out, we didn't know Dr. Strange 2 or Spider-Man 3 were going to be about the literal multiverse. All we had heard about Dr. Strange 2 was that it might have Nightmare as the main villain and be about the Dream Dimension. The multiverse didn't become an actual thing to properly theorize about until Loki and What-If came out, which were after Wandavision. Any theorizing about multiverse stuff in Wandavision was pants-on-head lunacy.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143853: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:57:51 PM

Recasts haven't been done since....Thor the Dark World i believe? Nowadays i'm not sure if thats likely.

I think they haven't stated what they are going to do with Ross after William Hurt's passing and given the huge problem that was Chadwick's passing too, i believe they might recast Ross to prevent another Black Panther 2 shenanigans....i think.

Uni cat
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143854: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:58:45 PM

I didn't think it was stupid to speculate. Speculation was clearly part of what was wanted with Wandavision (as the story is structured around a bunch of enigmatic situations). But I think both the speculation and the reaction to discovering it was unfounded was disproportionate. This is sort of Mythology Gag scenarios happen all the time, even within the MCU. For a quick example TIH keeps several elements from Ang Lee's Hulk, like directly following from that film's ending with Banner in Brazil (though he goes from the amazonian rainforest to Rio) and the fact Banner is on the run for exactly five years (Ang Lee's Hulk was released exactly five years before TIH). This doesn't mean that Ang Lee's Hulk is canon to the MCU, but if it had been released today the fandom would be running wild wondering if this means there's two separate Hulks and thus that means Maestro is confirmed.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143855: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:00:23 PM

The Multiverse of Madness title was revealed in 2019 long before WandaVision came out so yes people did know the literal multiverse was coming.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143856: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:01:08 PM

Btw, we knew about MOM since 2019. We didn't know about Wanda's involvement until way after and may i remind you, leaks about NWH were running around in late 2020, so don't pretend Multiverse stuff came out of nowhere.

Uni cat
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143857: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:02:11 PM

No, because again, all we knew at the time was that they were considering Nightmare as the villain and focusing on the Dream Dimension, so we all thought "Multiverse" was referring to different dimensions, just like the first Dr. Strange explored.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143858: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:03:30 PM

Evidently though not everyone assumed that.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143859: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:03:49 PM

Personally I am mixed on the whole Pietro thing. I do feel Marvel trolling with the boner joke was.... well, not exactly terrible, but still very infantile and not very smart. On the other hand, people were crazy about their whole theory thing and completely overreacted. Personally I don't get where they got the idea Mephisto was gonna show up.

Personally I am used to the superhero movies not living up to my theories, so it didn't shock me.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 10th 2022 at 3:09:54 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143860: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:05:22 PM

[up][up][up][up]Actually, Wanda was announced to be in it at SDCC, when the subtitle was revealed.

Really not trying to argue that it was the only option here, because it clearly wasn't, just trying to establish that when you know a) multiverse movie b) Wanda's showing up in it after her show c) they want to connect the movies to the shows, and d) the guy who played Wanda's dead brother in another film series playing Wanda's alleged brother in her show (where, as far as we could tell at that point, she'd already totally warped the laws of nature bringing Vision back without a real Infinity Stone), the conclusion "he might be from another universe" is not a completely out-there idea.

Again, not even saying the reaction wasn't overblown, just that the initial idea did not come out of nowhere.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:05:57 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143861: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:05:27 PM

His last name being Boehner is an incredibly minor joke, I don't understand why people hyperfocus on it.

[up]Again, we didn't think it was about the literal multiverse, we thought they were misusing the word to refer to Dormammu's dimension and the Dream Dimension and stuff like that.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:06:23 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143862: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:06:50 PM

I would give you this, the Mephisto talk was all schizo talk from the fandom. It's probably because he is involved in Wanda's backstory in the comics but it was unlikely for him to appear after Harkness revealed herself as the main villain and they wouldn't dare add a last minute villain now would they?

Oh wait, they did exactly that with Kingpin tonguetonguetongue

[up] Maybe with MOM. But after the NWH leaks, it was inevitable fans wouldn't speculate about the multiverse.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Jul 10th 2022 at 10:08:29 AM

Uni cat
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143863: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:08:17 PM

[up][up]Even if you are correct in the hyperbolic statement that literally everyone thought it would be about a multiverse of other parallel dimensions instead of timelines, having someone who played an alternate version of a character pop up, allegedly as that same character, in a show tying into the multiverse movie (whatever definition you want to use) is going to raise some eyebrows.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:08:28 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143864: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:09:18 PM

Mephisto/Cthon was a lot more reasonable speculation, based on the characters having a history with both Wanda Maximoff and Doctor Strange. The assumption came that Mephisto (or Cthon) could be the bridge between the two, particularly given the show played coy with who was the antagonist of it all. It just got out of hand as with every other speculation about Wandavision.

Pietro leading the charge of a canonization of the Fox-Men, while more enticing, was always a much more far-fetched concept, particularly for what seemed to be (and ultimately was) a pretty low-key, personal drama-oriented show. The Disney-Fox sale had been finalized less than a month before Wandavision started shooting and the MCU has always been very meticulous about its planning. It was way too soon to leap to that conclusion.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:10:12 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#143865: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:09:51 PM

I remember the “everything has to be multiverse / Mephisto setup” craze got so bad that when Loki did a bit of devil symbolism pertaining to Loki / Sylvie herself in the first episode, the director or something had to come out and say outright “no, it’s not a Mephisto hint, it’s just symbolism, shut up.”

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143866: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:11:08 PM

[up][up][up]Because that's what they said! They said that Multiverse of Madness was going to be a horror movie focusing on the Dream Dimension with Nightmare as the villain! There were no implications of an actual multiverse until Loki happened! I'm not crazy for trusting official statements, even if they did turn out to be lies (granted, the movie was a horror movie and did go a bit into dreams as a concept).

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:12:42 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143867: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:13:29 PM

Again, NWH leaks made the multiverse discussion much more louder. After hearing Molina and Foxx were coming back as Doc ock and Electro back in 2020, there is no way people didn't think "either they are making new versions with old actors or they are doing some multiversal bs". And then Evan Peters shows up and the audience goes full schizo on x-men theories.

Uni cat
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143868: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:14:18 PM

[up][up]And Scott Derrickson, the director pushing for Nightmare, left the movie about a year before Wandavision started debuting.

But whatever. I'm done trying to push for there being any kind of logic in this because it's going nowhere and I didn't even like the theory to begin with.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:14:29 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#143869: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:14:25 PM

People are trying to justify the WV speculation by pointing out that Multiverse of Madness was on the horizon but here's the thing: The speculation surrounding Multiverse of Madness was utterly bonkers as well.

Multiverse of Madness plagued fandom discourse for years. People threw everything under the sun that they could possibly think of at the film and called it speculation. It's going to violently merge the Fox-Men universe with the MCU! The Silver Surfer and Deadpool will team up to fight Mephisto! Tony Stark will be there! And Black Widow! And T.V.A. Loki! Plus, Nicolas Cage will reprise his role as Ghost Rider!

People thought Multiverse of Madness would be everything under the sun except a Dr. Strange movie; Strange himself was conspicuously absent from all the discussions, as if he wouldn't be an important part of the film at all. Which itself wound up being eerily prophetic, but I digress. It honestly got to the point that I couldn't wait for the film to come out and disappoint everyone just so I could stop hearing nonsense about it.

"The batshit theory-crafting about WandaVision tied in with the batshit theory-crafting about Multiverse of Madness" is not the defense y'all think it is.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:15:05 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#143870: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:14:46 PM

[up][up][up]And every official statement about Molina and Foxx's involvement was that they were playing new versions of the characters.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 10th 2022 at 6:15:07 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143871: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:19:20 PM

[up][up] no one's claiming anything more than MoM and NWH meant we knew the multiverse was coming and when someone turns up looking like another universe's quicksilver speculation than something multiversal is happening is not actually that crazy.

There's a lot of everyone assuming their speculation is reasonable and everyone else's is crazy here.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 10th 2022 at 2:20:05 PM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143872: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:36:47 PM

Maybe we should just take a break from MCU stuff and we might start enjoying them again.

Bah, maybe that's just me. Once Ms. Marvel is done (which i don't have high hopes for a decent finale after that last episode) i might do just that. (lol i forgot she-hulk is coming soon)

Uni cat
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143873: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:39:00 PM

And I just remembered Wakanda Forever is also introducing Ironheart where leaked images reveal she may already have a usable suit by that point

So Ironheart and Namor, a lot of none Black Panther stuff there alright. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143874: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:39:21 PM

Going back to the whole "Phase 4 is directionless and stakeless thing":

While it is true that not everything in Phase 4 has a clear path, I will say that Phase 1 and 2 did feel rather aimless as well, even after Thanos was introduced. Like, sure we find out he's behind Loki in the first Avengers movie, but we didn't know anything about what he wanted to do other than potentially "court death", which ended up being a Mythology Gag anyway.

It wasn't until roughly after Age of Ultron that I think we all figured out what the game plan was going to be, and how it was going to happen.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143875: Jul 10th 2022 at 6:39:55 PM

I feel like the mcu should have taken a longer break between phase 3 and 4. Allow a bit of cool off and antcipation to grow. But then the actors aren't getting any younger.


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