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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143826: Jul 10th 2022 at 12:59:55 PM

[up][up] In fairness the Man-Ape costume is from way before Priest I think.

[up] Oh yeah his BP run had a crossover with Deadpool where he was cursed with Tom Cruise's face.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#143827: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:02:18 PM

Still pales in comparison to Hudlin's run and how he basically had the entire MU bend over backwards to make T'Challa look great.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Priest's run. I haven't read. Just making an observation.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143828: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:07:25 PM

It’s weird. From what I’ve heard the wackiness and tone shifts in Priest’s run is because he was always teetering on cancellation and had to throw shit at the wall to see what struck a chord. But I guess Hudlin’s run has much better readership since I’ve never heard it having a similar problem

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#143829: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:21:11 PM

Think I saw a You Tuber (can't remember who?) Who compared him more to the kinds of African Dictators like Idi Amin. Who often try and charm their people by offering them such hopes and dreams only to stab them in the back for power when they take over.

Not sure Idi Amin is the best comparison, he was literally brought to power in a coup organized by the British government.

Ironically, I'd argue Musaveni, the current leader of Uganda since the 1980's, might be a better comparison.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143830: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:24:52 PM

[up][up] Weirdly enough this site says sales got lower when it stopped continuing Priest's stuff.

Hilariously Hudlin's run is becoming somewhat vindicated by history due to how poorly received the current BP series have become for several years now.

Its a compelling question, whether an invincible hero or a failure hero is the worse of the 2. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143831: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:29:02 PM

Ah, that's me corrected then

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143832: Jul 10th 2022 at 3:41:24 PM

Maybe is MCU burnout on my part but i'm noticing that at lot of the Phase 4 stories are really....meh? Not bad just, really boring or predictable or mediocre at best

It's like pumping out so much stuff in a year is messing with the quality of the shows and movies, not to mention how things seem to be less cohesive between newer films (3 different works since endgame establishes different rules in time travel, multiverse stuff also changing between works, etc)

Edited by fasoman1996 on Jul 10th 2022 at 7:43:16 AM

Uni cat
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143833: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:22:58 PM

I don't know if "predictable" is the right word, but.... yeah, I agree it kinda feels like they're losing steam. But then again, we tend to forget previous phases had their own mediocre movies, (Thor the Dark World and Age of Ultron weren't that great, and I personally feel Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 in the end didn't bring much to the table), so maybe it's best to wait for a bit and see if they improve.

But yeah the fact they give multiple contradicting rules for Time Travel and the Multiverse is something that personally annoys me. I mean, damn it, how hard can it be to make sure all writers on board are aware of the basic rules of a concept to follow?! Especially with the Multiverse, given that it seems to be the main focus on this phase; you'd think they'd all agree on how it work before doing that many movies about it.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:25:19 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143834: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:35:42 PM

To be honest, I don't think Phase Four is honestly any worse than the other phases. Rather, without a clear plan like the Infinity Saga had, what we're seeing is what the Marvel Cinematic Universe is when divorced from addiction-based storytelling.

Myth Arcs are effective at keeping people on the hook. They keep the fanbase eagerly speculating about what's just around the bend, even when the product being churned out isn't that great. People don't notice the holes in the writing or the storytelling formulas or the predictable character arcs when they're caught up in the throes of everlasting anticipation - and when they do, they just don't care because they're more invested in the possibility of episodes to come than they are in the reality of episodes that exist.

The Infinity Saga made it easy to get wrapped up in the hype. Characters like Thanos could meet with applause just by stepping onscreen, because here it comes, it's coming, oh boy, any day now it's coming.

But now it's come. It came. It went. It's over. And the movies continue on, same quality as they've always been. But the hype isn't there to disguise their weaker aspects anymore.

EDIT: Note that I'm not, by any means, saying that all MCU movies are bad. There are better and weaker films throughout each phase. Just that the highs are higher and the lows are easier to ignore when you're too busy salivating about the next film to pay attention to what's happening in this film.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2022 at 4:39:05 AM

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dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143835: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:42:44 PM

Not seen Eternals or Thor 4 yet. But I'm only aware of Ms Marvel using time travel? And it's a different method so different rules apply, makes sense to me.

Oh and Loki duh. It has weird time travel and multiverse but the universe are the same except they're not thing going on that made no sense. But again different tech and an organisation that has much more understanding of time travel than mere Tony Stark so I don't have problem with them being able to do different stuff with it.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143836: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:45:21 PM

It's kinda hilarious too because we forgot it as soon as Infinity War came out, but the Infinity War arc... progressed rather poorly as well. People were mocking how Thanos was barely showing up and whenever he did, he didn't do shit, how he had not managed to gather a single Infinity Stone and even lost one, and how not much was progressing besides one of the stones showing up every now and then. So yeah, honestly the MCU always was a bit clunky in that, we're just noticing it better now.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143837: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:47:49 PM

The mcu isn't really a good well planned shared universe. It's just noticable because it's the only really sucessful shared universe that's happened. No one else has managed to replicate it.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143838: Jul 10th 2022 at 4:55:31 PM

Endgame wasn't even consistant within itself neither but i guess i can let that one instance pass.

But multiverse stuff is not only bothering me, it even creeps up in speculation and even some shows. Wandavision was utterly ruined in some parts by leaning into the multiverse tease with Evan Peters, which amount to a whole lot of nothing. Not to mention that hilarious "leaks" about MOM with tobey maguire fighting morbius while galactus was default dancing on the background.

Again, maybe it's just burnout. After ms marvel i should take a break.

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143839: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:20:48 PM

Evan Peters was never a multiverse tease. He was a meaningful continuity gag. Pietro Maximoff shows up at Wanda's door, and the audience immediately realizes that something is terribly wrong here. There is no possible casting that would have captured that vibe better than the wrong Pietro. It was fucking inspired.

It's not the show's fault that the fandom lost their goddamn minds and went, "MEPHISTO CANONIZES THE FOX X-MEN!!!" over it. Y'all did that shit to yourselves. And then kept right on doing it with subsequent shows and especially with Multiverse of Madness.

A lot of people watched WandaVision primarily for the future Marvel projects it would announce, rather than enjoying it for WandaVision. That's not a great way to consume media, and the fact that the MCU trained people to do this is arguably its greatest sin. One that it is paying for today in diminishing fandom interest.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:23:11 AM

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dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143840: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:25:01 PM

You just said it was inspired casting to make people think 'wtf is going on?' and then criticised them for trying to figure out... wtf was going on.

Evans' casting was obviously done to inspire just that speculation.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:25:24 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143841: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:35:17 PM

Yes, it was meant to fuel speculation. But not wild-ass nonsense speculation. It was pretty obviously meant to indicate that this wasn't the real Pietro. That he was a fabrication of Wanda's powers or something.

But where people ran with it is inexcusably bonkers. You might as well have tried to argue that Christian Bale being in Thor: Love and Thunder is meant to canonize the Dark Knight Trilogy as part of the MCU, and then turn around and call it a shitty movie because it doesn't do that. That is obviously not what it means, it's ridiculous that anyone would even think that, and it's further ridiculous to hold it against the show for not running with the most balls-out nonsense option imaginable.

I repeat: Y'all did that to yourselves.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:35:41 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143842: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:35:56 PM

[up]Cannot disagree hard enough, literally one of the first things people found out after this show was officially first announced at SDCC was that Wanda's next appearance would be in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.

Couple that with Marvel emphasizing that the shows would actually be connected to the movies and no, they were openly inviting speculation, and if they wanted to emphasize that something was wrong they could have cast literally anybody else. Hell, even bringing Taylor-Johnson back would have done that, because then taken with Hayward's lies about her stealing Vision's corpse people would be questioning how she got Pietro's body.

Was the response overblown? Yes, absolutely, but the speculation did not come spontaneously out of a vacuum.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:36:12 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143843: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:37:04 PM

There is literally no possible actor in the universe who would cause such an immediate kneejerk "NOPE, THAT'S WRONG" reaction to seeing them walk up and introduce themselves as Pietro.

Not one.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:37:22 AM

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#143844: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:37:19 PM

Marvel: Casts the actor that played quicksilver in another franchise.

Fans: Oh wow! Does that mean X-Men are going to appear in this show? is multiverse stuff involved in the show?

Marvel: Heh, boner.

Yeah, really inspired

Uni cat
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143845: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:38:17 PM

Marvel does like people speculating. It just got massively out of hand since Wandavision where the Fandom will take anything, no matter how minor, as excuse to assume everything and be absolutely insulted if it doesn't cater exactly to their fan theories. We've reached a point where people basically create the entire movie/show in their heads and if it isn't exactly that, it's shit. The reaction to Multiverse of Madness had a lot of this where some people were insulted the movie tried to tell a story rather than become a slideshow for fan theories and cameos.

The reaction to Peters Pietro should have been "oh well" rather than people wanting to burn an effigy of the MCU for having the gall of making a Casting Gag.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 10th 2022 at 5:39:21 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#143846: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:38:23 PM

Anyone who isn't that universe's Pietro would be wrong, there was no need to cast someone who played a different Pietro.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143847: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:40:16 PM

@tobias I watched WandaVision way after the fact so took no part in speculation but... Seriously? They cast the one other guy known for playing Quicksilver and you think it's stupid of people to wonder if he's literally that Quicksilver?

Especially when Multiverse of Madness was known to be up coming and part of a thematic trilogy with WV and No Way Home? Speculating it was the multiverse isn't a stretch at all.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:41:20 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143848: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:41:35 PM

Anyone who isn't Aaron Taylor-Johnson would just make people think he was recast. How many people were put off by Don Cheadle claiming to be Rhodey? Don Cheadle isn't Rhodey. Terrence Howard is Rhodey. Why would Don Cheadle be introducing himself as Rhodey!?

See, it's not the same. A new actor playing Pietro does not incite the same gut WTF reaction as the wrong actor playing Pietro.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143849: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:42:03 PM

Man I can't believe Taylor-Johnson didn't at least have a cameo in Wandavision

At least he was talked about but shit real missed opportunity not to have him back in some capacity

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#143850: Jul 10th 2022 at 5:42:52 PM

I'll say outright that I thought there was a serious possibility that there was some multi-versal shenanigans going on with Pietro's appearance and that could lead to a wider introduction of mutants, if not directly, then in some roundabout way.

And more generally, we know that we are going to bring mutants in eventually, and given Wanda's history in the comics the idea of her being the gateway to that introduction was never particularly outlandish. So of course people are going to look at every property she's was in with that in mind.

If anything, in retrospect I'm more surprised we haven't yet seen any indication of the groundwork being laid for mutants in the MCU. Just a Professor X variant in MoM that tells us nothing about what it means for the main universe.


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