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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#143576: Jul 6th 2022 at 8:55:25 PM

I think it's just one of those Depending on the Writer details that only become important when the narrative says so.

Like how Batman could hate Rock and Roll in one story yet love heavy metal in another in the same continuity.

Plus, I think they just want to explain why Wanda would tear her way through the multiverse to get her children if her dreams weren't connected to the multiverse. Same thing with Doctor Strange preemptively knowing who America is despite never meeting her before.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143577: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:22:01 PM

I don't think its a true that 100% of all dreams are just the multiverse.

When Wong gave an example of a naked dream, didn't America just say it was "probably" an alternate, naked Wong?

Of course, I guess that conflicts with her also saying that she knows theres no alternate hers because she doesn't dream.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#143578: Jul 6th 2022 at 10:28:16 PM

I dont think anything can really take place before Loki because Loki takes place outside of regular time. So when the multiverse is set free to branch at the end of the show it has actually always been that way from the perspective of everybody else.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#143579: Jul 6th 2022 at 10:43:13 PM

You could say that what your subconscious is thinking about determines which alternate universes your dreams show you. So if you're obsessively thinking about a traumatic event that happened in your past, your dreaming mind will seek out universes where that traumatic event is also happening.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#143580: Jul 7th 2022 at 5:21:13 AM

It's not that unreasonable to imagine, in an infinite multiverse, universes similar or even identical to ours that started earlier or later than our own. Certainly not as improbable as like, the paint universe.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143581: Jul 7th 2022 at 5:51:31 AM

I don't think its a true that 100% of all dreams are just the multiverse.

They sure flat-out present it as such. I mean, Wanda take her dreaming of her kids as proof they exist in another universe, and not that it could be caused by her trauma. And America Chavez flat-out declares she never dreams due to having no alternate counterpart.

I think it's just one of those Depending on the Writer details that only become important when the narrative says so.

I know. And that's my problem. It's one thing when this sort of thing causes slight changes in the character's personnality across medias, like your "Batman hates Rock 'n roll" example. It's a whole other thing when it results in three completely different Multiverse systems that while not particularly contradicting each other (yet) don't really mix together that well.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 7th 2022 at 3:05:17 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143583: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:23:54 AM

Oh, thanks the One-Above-All! I know everyone expected Kingpin to survive due to what happened to him in the comic but I was genuinely afraid they'd kill him off.

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#143584: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:26:11 AM

I wonder if they would explain how Wilson Fisk turned into an unstoppable behemoth?

And I wonder if Daredevil would receive a buff to be able to fight on the same level as Wilson Fisk, or would he rely on new strategies that don't involve direct physical confrontation?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#143585: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:28:28 AM

> I wonder if they would explain how Wilson Fisk turned into an unstoppable behemoth?

he made a deal with the demon Mephisto!

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143586: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:32:45 AM

Yep. He sold Spider-Man's future marriage to Mephisto for power. He read Back in Black/One More Day while he was in prison and thought it'd be a hilarious act of petty retaliation once he got to his scene.

So if you were wondering why we got No Way Home instead of the movie where Spidey fights Kraven, that's why.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 7th 2022 at 10:33:06 AM

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uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#143587: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:38:34 AM

The confrontation between Echo and Kingpin was ripped straight from the comics. There he survived the shot but was temporary blind from it. Wonder if they will adapt that aspect.

But most importently this will be the litmus test if the Disney plus shows can live up to the legacy of the Netflix ones.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#143588: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:41:10 AM

[up] I mean, Hawkeye just throwing Kingpin in at the last minute isn't a particularly good sign imo.

Kaze ni Nare!
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143589: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:41:52 AM

Very likely yes. That's why most people thought he still was alive. I was hoping so but part of me was worried they really were killing him off.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#143590: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:48:52 AM

And I wonder if Daredevil would receive a buff to be able to fight on the same level as Wilson Fisk, or would he rely on new strategies that don't involve direct physical confrontation?

I mean, power levels have been all over the place in more recent projects.

Fisk in Hawkeye was borderline superhuman compared to what he seemed in the Netflix show. So yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have Matt inexplicably being buffed to super soldier levels and we don't get stuff like the well choreographed, gritty and realistic fight scenes of seasons 1 through 3.

Okey Dokey!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#143591: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:55:06 AM

I assumed Fisk got him some Super Solider Serum. He's one of the few who could get their hands on it from the Power Broker.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#143592: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:56:11 AM

Black market super soldier serum is my guess. After the Blip, it probably became a hell of a lot easier for someone to get their hands on it. That or some other sort of physical enhancement, possibly surgery performed after some sort of serious physical injury.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#143593: Jul 7th 2022 at 10:58:00 AM

Seriously though,Frisk's buff probably is the result of some serious augmentation, I wouldn't go as far as super solider serum though

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143594: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:00:22 AM

Eh, I just saw it as different creative visions. The Kingpin's Charles Atlas Superpower fluctuates wildly from one writer to another in the comics. Dude has absolutely no superpowers but can bench-press over 1,200 lbs. and rip buildings apart. It's not unreasonable that the same thing happened here.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 7th 2022 at 11:02:07 AM

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Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#143595: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:01:58 AM

Yeah I kinda agree with Tobias Drake. Kingpin is that strong in comics despite lacking powers.

Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#143596: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:02:07 AM

Fisk's strength is probably never going to get an in-universe explanation. It's one of the byproducts of being switched over from the Netflix shows to the "main" MCU.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#143597: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:09:04 AM

To be fair, its like that in the comics too. He's always been abnormally strong despite lacking powers

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#143598: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:12:12 AM

> He's always been abnormally strong despite lacking powers

Being abnormally strong is is his power technically

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Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#143599: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:20:34 AM

I keep saying: Fisk is "peak human". And "peak human" is bullshit comics speak for "low-level superhuman".

People commented a lot on Captain America being more overtly superhuman in the MCU but I don't think there's much of a difference. It's fairly regular for comics Cap to punch someone 4 meters in the air or shatter a steel car door with a kick.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143600: Jul 7th 2022 at 11:21:11 AM

That Hollywood Reporter link has noted that there's rumors of Jessica Jones coming back, or at least being hinted at being around somewhere.

If that's true...dammit I have more TV to catch up on.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 7th 2022 at 11:22:00 AM

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