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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#143401: Jul 2nd 2022 at 6:41:08 PM

Namor also does tend to respect people who refuse to back down from hopeless fights with him and battle to the bitter end, so there's that. Could just be a case of Panther not being able to fight him in a million years but deciding to do their best anyway.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#143402: Jul 2nd 2022 at 7:03:32 PM

[up][up] Surely Wakanda has the technology to revive extinct plant species via cloning?

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#143403: Jul 2nd 2022 at 7:10:12 PM

But did Killmonger think of that first and order them to destroy any lab samples too? Plus there’s a spiritual component to the herb, so it may not be as easy as just growing new ones in a tube.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143404: Jul 2nd 2022 at 7:21:54 PM

It's possible they might not bring back the herb as an acknowledgement of "while they may not be the true Black Panther, they'll try to live up to his name as best they can"

So a somewhat similar thing to Sam being Captian America without the supersoldier serum

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143405: Jul 2nd 2022 at 9:03:36 PM

Disregarding the fandom is one thing, but Letitia Wright personally causing them problems onset seems like as good of a reason to downscale her character as any.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143406: Jul 2nd 2022 at 9:15:23 PM

Oh yeah she halted production for a while because she refused to get the vaccine and had to be forced to do so.

So she is officially a pain to work with.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 2nd 2022 at 9:15:37 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#143407: Jul 3rd 2022 at 2:44:46 AM

I think you could definitely have a legacy Black Panther who is just skills and tech, but no herb-induced powers. Would probably want to give them some new tech on top of what T'Challa had though.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143408: Jul 3rd 2022 at 10:43:18 AM

An interesting thought I just now realized is that Wakanda Forever could be compared to Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness.

There have been people that have noted that Mo M is technically not a Doctor Strange film, being more of a Scarlet Witch and multiverse movie with Strange in the lead. Strange is the main character but he’s not really dealing with Doctor Strange stuff, instead Wanda and the Illuminati comprised of multiple heroes and only one character from his mythos.

So it will be interesting when Wakanda Forever comes out what will be the ratio of it being a Namor film that happens to star some Wakandan characters as the protagonists.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#143409: Jul 3rd 2022 at 2:41:40 PM

So it's like a Supporting Protagonist film. Either way, this is definitely proof of the extreme absurdly of Phase 4.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143410: Jul 3rd 2022 at 2:43:53 PM

Extreme absurdly?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#143411: Jul 3rd 2022 at 3:04:00 PM

It's not so much absurd as it is totally aimless. They are throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.

The legend has returned.
Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#143412: Jul 3rd 2022 at 3:22:52 PM

Stupid autocorrect, and Phase 4 is basically a Back to Basics phase but every new character is like this lore-shattering, continuity-breaking, seizure-inducing, multiverse-filled crap.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143413: Jul 3rd 2022 at 3:27:44 PM

Too many crisis crossover events and too much Continuity Lock-Out when they should be going for conflicts that are smaller in scale (Ms. Marvel, though I worry about this changing in the next two episodes; the Netflix shows) or lower on the shoehorned cameos (Moon Knight, also Ms. Marvel).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143414: Jul 3rd 2022 at 4:45:36 PM

Its fairly notable in BP's case as the inclusion of Namor and his characters basically opens up an entire new franchise within the movie

Which considering this is only the second film of the series already trying to find and reconfigure itself after the passing of its main characters actor, that is a lot.

Which is really sad because I think Namor was at least intended for Black Panther 3 but Boseman's death may have possibly lead them to instead rush all this for BP 2.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#143415: Jul 3rd 2022 at 6:43:59 PM

There have been people that have noted that Mo M is technically not a Doctor Strange film, being more of a Scarlet Witch and multiverse movie with Strange in the lead. Strange is the main character but he’s not really dealing with Doctor Strange stuff, instead Wanda and the Illuminati comprised of multiple heroes and only one character from his mythos.

In similar vein, Loki is more a show about the TVA that just happens to feature Loki.

Okey Dokey!
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#143416: Jul 3rd 2022 at 10:14:17 PM

Too many crisis crossover events and too much Continuity Lockout when they should be going for conflicts that are smaller in scale
So exactly like the source material thentongue.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143417: Jul 4th 2022 at 7:03:48 AM

Yeah, the movies are suffering from the same problem that often plagues the comics: Nobody wants to write reasonable conflicts. Everything has to always be the biggest thing ever written now.

In theory, this could be remedied by making TV shows. But Marvel isn't interested in making TV shows. They're just making longer movies and cutting them into chapters. So the issue remains.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#143418: Jul 4th 2022 at 7:10:49 AM

[up]It's interesting, because it's not like the MCU's been allergic to that in the past. I think Civil War was pretty poorly executed, but it was clearly intending exactly a reasonable, low level conflict.

I can't tell if it's the fact that they've been trying to set up the multiverse, and/or mostly an accident of character, Strange/Loki/Wanda all scale bigger. But they did it with Spiderman/Falcon/Winter Soldier too.

ETA: Hawkeye's the closest they've come to street level and I really enjoyed it, despite it's flaws, but besides that, I'm struggling to think of any recent or upcoming small-scale films.

Edited by ECD on Jul 4th 2022 at 7:12:04 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#143420: Jul 4th 2022 at 8:32:38 AM

Low level as in not World threatening.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#143421: Jul 4th 2022 at 8:37:39 AM

[up][up]I mean, they try to hype it up a bit, but the threat is literally one guy carrying out a bombing and psychological games. Even the supersoldier threat is fairly obviously fake as they were put on ice years ago. There's some suggestion they'll run around toppling governments, but as their own government was able to put them on ice, the concern is minimal and fake.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143422: Jul 4th 2022 at 8:39:31 AM

It’s big in participation numbers and fallout but small in what’s at stake

Which was mostly Tony Stark’s feelings and Bucky’s life

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143423: Jul 4th 2022 at 8:49:28 AM

The fact that you guys are all talking about this is interesting, since I was kind of trying to write out my thoughts on how the whole big-stakes problem has been a Franchise Original Sin from the beginning, but people really only started to notice around Ms. Marvel, which I thought I'd make an actual entry at some point.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 4th 2022 at 8:49:40 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#143424: Jul 4th 2022 at 10:21:59 AM

I dunno, in the first two Iron Man movies, the only things at stake are that Tony will die and that a greedy arms manufacturer will get Iron Man tech to sell.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143425: Jul 4th 2022 at 10:45:15 AM

[up] I mean, the first movie had the whole "getting kidnapped by terrorists and fighting back against them with new technology" part. Which admittedly seems small-scale in contrast to other stuff, but is still a pretty big thing.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."

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