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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#143251: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:35:15 AM

Someone posted a while back that Mo M takes place in between No Way Home and Hawkeye, and I don't know where they're getting that. Raimi is on record as saying it's a "few months" after No Way Home, and Hawkeye is the next month.

Plus, as others have pointed out, no snow.

It seems more like Mo M takes place in early 2025 which puts it either just before or just after Ms. Marvel (which takes place around the end of March, beginning of April). My money would be on a little bit after, just because of how Christine's wedding was filmed.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143252: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:38:12 AM

[up] Apparently it's where Disney+ has put it in the timeline on it's menus? But yeah doesn't seem to make sense.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#143253: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:44:20 AM

Well that's probably just an algorithm thing or quite simply a mistake (like when Netflix shows sometimes have the description for other shows).

The way Mo M is shot and Raimi's own thoughts on the matter make it much more likely to be spring 2025.

It doesn't matter terribly one way or the other, as nothing that happens in Mo M would reasonably impact Hawkeye (aside from the news noting a recent monster attack in NYC....again), but it does seem likely to just be an out of universe error.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143254: Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:22:18 AM

Heh this post is funny

"Anyone else preferred Hulk when he was a serious character. Now he’s like he’s a comedic second character in other movies"

There's enough dissatisfaction with how Hulk is portrayed now that people are getting nostalgic for the 2008 film.

Which I can't fault them really. They may not have been the best films abut t least Hulk was the star in the 2008 and Ang Lee films.

Man that fucking Universal rights issue.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:22:41 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#143255: Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:24:23 AM

I have always loved the 2008 film. And I still stand by my opinion that his design was the absolute best Live Action design.

He looked absolutely badass and terrifying.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 23rd 2022 at 11:24:31 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143256: Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:38:59 AM

Ya know I'm reminded that Norton-Banner is I think my father's favorite Hulk and I'm starting to agree there.

Kinda miss tortured serious Banner. Ruffalo being handed mostly nothing but comedy stuff is really annoying.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143257: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:06:09 AM

Do Hulk's rights revert if Universal don't make a Hulk movie? The way Spidey/X-men's were going to from Sony/Fox.

Can we look forward to an Ashcan Copy Hulk release?

-

Hulk did get some serious beats in the first two Avengers but with Ragnarok everything was played for laughs and stuck.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jun 23rd 2022 at 11:06:53 AM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#143258: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:54:33 AM

is Universal harder to strike a deal with than Sony?

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#143259: Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:08:35 AM

IIRC Universal never had the film rights, they just had distribution rights, which is why Hulk could just appear as a secondary character in other movies. So it's never been a matter of having to work out a deal, it's just that Disney/Marvel would rather keep Hulk like that than put money in Universal's pocket.

Of course this is assuming Universal even has those rights still anyway - the whole matter is extremely poorly documented with several claims that the rights have long since reverted. And considering how long they're taking to pull the trigger on FF and X-Men it'd make sense that they just don't know what to do with Hulk just yet, though it does feel like between Shang-Chi and She-Hulk that he's being set up as a more major character.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#143260: Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:16:40 AM

Is the Ang Lee film really to blame for this general Hulk film reluctance? tongue

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143261: Jun 23rd 2022 at 4:35:47 AM

Considering Hulk already has a well liked actor and presence in the MCU it seems like it'd be much easier to give him a new solo movie than introduce the FF or X-Men you just need a decent script.

FF should be simple as they have an origin story, that rocket ship can launch them into cosmic radiation at any point.

X-Men kind of involves awkwardly pretending prof x and magneto have been around in secret for ages and now teenage mutants are starting to appear as well.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143262: Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:30:31 AM

I say put Magneto on ice

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#143263: Jun 23rd 2022 at 9:02:36 AM

I did have the thought of a modern day X-Men film where Magneto and Professor X are both Posthumous Characters with possible appearances in flashbacks and the current Brotherhood of Mutants and X-Men are trying to continue their respective legacies.

That would probably make it easier to give different characters more spotlight this time.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143264: Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:35:05 AM

While that is a neat idea, and is probably the best idea for the X-Men as a whole, there is a part of me that really wants Ian McKellen as Magneto show up for one or two more films.

I mean, we got Patrick Stewart back as Charles as a variant, what's to say he couldn't do it as well? Plus, we never got a proper send off for McKellen's Magneto, and it would be great if the MCU could do that for some version of him.

Also, if we're still doing multiverse stuff in the future, I'd really like Brian Cox to appear as a more comic-accurate version of Reverend Stryker. Maybe have him work with Agent Cleary and Damage Control as an Actor Allusion to Succession, haha.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:36:03 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#143265: Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:55:41 AM

Yeah, Universal had the distrubution rights to any potential Hulk film, not the production rights to control how to make one.

According to Forbes, while Universal holds distribution rights to the Hulk sequels, Disney and Marvel Entertainment have film production rights to the large green superhero. Marvel regained cinematic rights to the character in 2005 after Universal failed to make a follow-up to Ang Lee's Hulk movie.

However, Universal does still hold the right of first refusal with distribution rights to a new Hulk movie. That means Universal can decide whether to distribute a Hulk sequel or not created by Disney and Marvel. If Universal says no, then Disney and Marvel can proceed anyway.

As such, Universal technically isn't holding up a Planet Hulk or The Incredible Hulk sequel. Disney and Marvel hold all the rights to create a new film, though they might have to share distribution with Universal.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fvvytfvwaaeoyyr.jpg

It's also why Universal can churn out wacky two-packs like this they can profit from: https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fvvzv7vx0aehm2k.jpeg

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:56:46 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#143266: Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:57:15 AM

So where does She-Hulk fall into this? It's a TV show made for streaming. Does that count as part of this business arangement?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#143267: Jun 23rd 2022 at 11:12:38 AM

[up]No, precisely because it's a television series that Universal didn't factor in their deal with Marvel. This was also addressed in the recent official production book, The Story of Marvel Studios: The Making of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

The Sony deal for Spider-Man actually considered television shows, which means they hold the rights to any live-action series based on Spidey (with Marvel's approval, of course). Hence why Sony is still going forward with a Silk adaptation for Prime Video.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:12:55 PM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#143268: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:37:58 PM

But why do they still have distribution rights?

I am probably one of the few people who prefers a Hulk who can speak coherently. Hulk Speak is just so utterly overused and annoying to me at this point.

I don't think you are alone. People do like Joe Fixit, Green Scar and Devil Hulk after all.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#143269: Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:22:22 PM

Because their contract doesn't state that those rights just magically revert. Unlike the production rights, which did revert if they failed to meet certain conditions, which they did.

The main reason Marvel doesn't do a solo Hulk film is that they don't want to, because they are convinced it would not be profitable enough to be worth the trouble. That is more important than everything else.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#143270: Jun 23rd 2022 at 2:40:19 PM

Yeah, the issue is ultimately one of money rather than creative issues.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#143271: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:45:39 PM

If Stewart and McKellen are going to reprise their roles one last time, I'd be down to see Age of Apocalypse be the big crossover event, with the multiversal shenanigans there dragging in people from the Singer/Fox-verse.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#143272: Jun 24th 2022 at 1:34:03 AM

Oh my God I never thought of this

What if Michael Korvac appears in The Marvels?

Holy shit he'd be perfect, guy was experimented on by the Kree and gains Godlike powers as a result. He'd be the perfect antagonist for Captain Marvel and co.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 24th 2022 at 1:34:26 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#143273: Jun 24th 2022 at 2:03:10 AM

He's definitely powerful enough to give Carol a run for her money and has strong foil energy.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#143274: Jun 24th 2022 at 4:15:53 AM

On the last page there seemed to be confusion at to how Doctor Strange 2 could take place between Hawkeye and No way Home,

Well that because Hawkeye takes place in the Christmas a year after the Christmas No Way Home finishes on.

No Way Home takes place in the same year as Far From Home and the end of Endgame, it finishes in the first post Endgame Christmas, where as Hawkeye takes place at at least the second post Endgame Christmas, which we know due to comments about the Barton family's Christmas the prior year.

No Way Home takes place at the end of 2023, Multiver of Madness during 2024, and then Hawkeye presumably at the end of 2024.

Edited by Whowho on Jun 24th 2022 at 12:18:36 PM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#143275: Jun 24th 2022 at 4:24:23 AM

Does Far From Home take place the same year as Endgame? At the start they talk about how they've just finished repeating the whole school year they were blipped in.

So it sounds like there was a long time between Endgame and Far From home.

Plus there's the detail of Spidey swinging past the Rogers: The Musical. If NWH is a year before Endgame it means Rogers has been playing for over a year before Hawkeye goes to see it; nothing inherently impossible about that of course but it's not really what's implied.

Coherent timelines has never really been the MCU's thing.


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