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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142301: May 16th 2022 at 5:17:13 PM

Namor has always been a intolerable jackass from day one, being a mercurial egotist was in fact his pitch. His whole pitch is that he's a egocentric and explosive man who sees everyone above the surface as a potential enemy to those under water. In his first appearances he attacks random people at open sea because the Nazis (specifically) dropped depth sea charges and accidentally hit Atlantis (despite failing to understand the obvious that the Nazis don't speak for the entire human race).

The first-ever Marvel hero crossover (and one of the first superhero crossovers ever) was in fact Human Torch (not that one, the android) trying to stop Namor from sinking the entirety of Manhattan over perceived wrongdoings against Atlantis. Which also inaugurated the timeless marvel tradition of heroes fistifghting each other every time they meet.

My favorite version of Namor was actually in a little-known comic called Sub-Mariner: The Depths, which just drops all pretense and tells a horror story of men venturing to the crushing depths and being haunted by the abyssal horror of Namor the Sub-Mariner. Basically it's Alien but Namor is the Xenomorph.

EDIT: Namor would actually be one of the first outright superhero anti-heroes. The previous anti-heroes in comics tended to be more mundane.

Edited by Gaon on May 16th 2022 at 5:18:31 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#142302: May 16th 2022 at 5:52:52 PM

Namor can sometimes be honorable and respectful, sometimes, usually when someone either makes him break a sweat or fights to the bitter end no matter how badly outmatched they are. That's about it for redeeming traits. He's a piece of shit, there's no way around it.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on May 16th 2022 at 5:53:29 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142303: May 16th 2022 at 5:53:23 PM

I feel like there were some times where he wasn't always a jackass.

But then again, what all of you are saying makes sense. Namor's definitely an acquired taste.

Hell, even his fellow Atlanteans are sick of him. How many times has he been kicked out of that place again?

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142304: May 16th 2022 at 5:54:40 PM

Its amusing amusing that his DC analogue Ocean Master is far more popular and well liked by his citizens than Namor is by his.

Like surface hatred aside, Orm was a pretty great king who genuinely cared for his subjects. Thats why he's so popular and always has backing whenever he wants to take back the throne.

The people will always love him more than Arthur.

Edited by slimcoder on May 16th 2022 at 5:55:43 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#142305: May 16th 2022 at 5:58:37 PM

Possible MCU spoiler about Namor - I'm not sure to what extent it's confirmed or even credible, but supposedly Namor is going to be the antagonist (villain?) of the Black Panther sequel and will be played by Tenoch Huerta.

Which is kind of an inspired choice, because whereas Killmonger's villainy is rooted in criticism of Wakanda's isolationism, Namor shtick is that he's a big proponent of the isolated Hidden Elf Village, which he takes to (sometimes murderous) extremes that make the Dora Milaje look easygoing by comparison.

Edit - Also, Slimcoder reminds me of how much Marvel loves the Corrupted Character Copy trope.

Edited by Hodor2 on May 16th 2022 at 6:00:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#142306: May 16th 2022 at 6:53:17 PM

Namor has an Odd Friendship of sorts with his fellow Invaders from WW II Steve Rogers and Jim Hammond.

They are notably two of the only people who seem to more or less consider Namor a genuine friend (most of the time).

My favorite version of Namor was actually in a little-known comic called Sub-Mariner: The Depths, which just drops all pretense and tells a horror story of men venturing to the crushing depths and being haunted by the abyssal horror of Namor the Sub-Mariner. Basically it's Alien but Namor is the Xenomorph.

The best part is that it ends with the narrator being spared and rescued from the depths by Namor because Namor somehow knew that the narrator would help him keep Atlantis a secret.

Edited by M84 on May 16th 2022 at 9:55:32 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142307: May 16th 2022 at 7:21:35 PM

Actually, from what I hear, it's just Jim Hammond now.

Even Steve is done with Namor's shit.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142308: May 16th 2022 at 7:24:54 PM

Hell the Squadron Supreme comic from a few years ago started with the Squadron destroying Atlantis and then Hyperion executing Namor via decapitation for everything he's done.

Spectrum even uses his head a soccer ball.

Edited by slimcoder on May 16th 2022 at 7:50:48 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142309: May 16th 2022 at 7:35:47 PM

[up][up] Throughout the Aaron Avengers and the new Invaders book that spun out of it, Cap'n Steve has been standing up for Namor because of their ol' Nazi punching days.

Right around when Namor realized he'd been a giant asshole, Steve independently also realized that Namor had been a giant asshole and has been grouchy about Namor trying to make amends. Partially because Namor is characteristically imperious about being humble and repentant.

I don't think Jim Hammond likes anyone right now, especially not Namor.

Namor punched his body off in said Invaders book, requiring Jim to get a new, Starktech body which was more robotic and less 'can't believe he's not human' and after the events of Invaders, Jim moved to space to be alone because he decided he hated everyone.

Where Korvac validated that decision by showing up and mind controlling him.

Dunno what happened after that, I'm behind on the Iron Man book.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142310: May 16th 2022 at 8:49:02 PM

[up]

Hah. I'm aware that now that Namor is actually repentant, Steve now hates him.

While I still think there must have been a time when Namor wasn't 100% awful, I do think he kinda deserves Steve's scorn.

As for the stuff about Jim, I think Bucky still likes Namor. Maybe Bruce Banner as well.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142311: May 16th 2022 at 9:01:59 PM

Edit - Also, Slimcoder reminds me of how much Marvel loves the Corrupted Character Copy trope.

Although in this case the funny thing is that Namor precedes both Aquaman and Ocean Master (Aquaman by three years, Ocean Master by three decades). Marvel's heroes largely come after DC (as many of Marvel's emblematic characters come from the 60's while DC's the 30's and 40's), but Namor is a case where it's the reverse.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#142312: May 16th 2022 at 9:13:40 PM

@fredhot16

Namor ain't that old or unique.

No idea what you mean by that, considering Namor is the OG of Marvel. Marvel was founded in 1939, and its very first comic which came out the same year, Marvel Mystery Comics #1, debuted three characters: the android Human Torch, The Angel, and Namor. He's literally one of the three very first Marvel characters. Captain America wouldn't debut until 1941, two years later.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 16th 2022 at 9:14:58 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142313: May 16th 2022 at 9:39:03 PM

A part of me is actually surprised those 3 were never used as a distinct super-group of their own, for nostalgia's sake.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#142314: May 16th 2022 at 9:50:41 PM

They would make sense, too, with kind of a Superman/Wonder Woman/Batman dynamic. Two superpowered characters and one Badass Normal. Namor has water powers and is the king of Atlantis, Human Torch has fire powers and is an android, Angel has no powers and is a detective who kills people with guns and knives.

Apparently, there was a whole big arc of the comics where Angel led an organization called the Scourges Of The Underworld dedicated to murdering all of the minor supervillains.

Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#142315: May 16th 2022 at 9:55:56 PM

I think we oughta yank this back to actual MCU-centric discussion now.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#142316: May 16th 2022 at 9:59:07 PM

Well, if Namor is coming to the MCU in Black Panther, like rumors suggest, I'd like to see Human Torch and Angel also make an appearance. Maybe acknowledge that Namor is super old and have Human Torch and Angel be WWI-era heroes who predate even Captain America and fought Namor at one time.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 16th 2022 at 10:09:45 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142317: May 16th 2022 at 10:03:51 PM

I am fairly curious how an Illuminati team dealing with hte Incursion saga would form here.

In the comics the team was comprised of Iron Man, Black Bolt, Mr. Fantastic, Black Panther, Doc Strange, Namor, and Beast (who replaces a then dead Prof. X) with a a minor appearance of Captain America and Captain Britain.

Though 2 of those, Tony and T'Challa are out play unless their positions are filled in by say War Machine, or Shuri. Captain Marvel would most likely be a member here.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142318: May 16th 2022 at 11:02:52 PM

The Golden Age of Marvel in general is very cool and I wish the MCU did more with it. The First Avenger's retro-pulp Two-Fisted Tales vibes are one of my favorite aesthetics of the MCU. It's kind of a shame that the focus of Captain America makes it impossible to really go with the comics logic that WWII was where superheroes really blew up and became a part of everyday life in the Marvel Universe;

It'd be very hard to put Namor and Torch there retroactively but it might be done through multiversal shenanigans (i.e. one Golden Age Marvel-themed universe).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#142319: May 16th 2022 at 11:40:15 PM

The Human Torch got a cameo in one the museum scenes, didn't he?

I'll just look it up instead of leaving the question.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/human_torch.png

Phineas Horton's synthetic man at the 1943 Stark Expo.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#142320: May 16th 2022 at 11:47:06 PM

Ooh, interesting. Now I REALLY hope that we get a pre-Captain America flashback of Human Torch and Angel fighting Namor.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#142321: May 16th 2022 at 11:48:42 PM

It would be awesome if we somehow got an Invaders movie.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142322: May 16th 2022 at 11:53:08 PM

A cool past thing that we never got for obvious reasons was Cap doing a mission where he was sent to Wakanda and encountered the then Black Panther, then T'Chakka now Azzuri T'Challa's grandfather.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chortleous she/her friend to the hooved (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
she/her friend to the hooved
#142323: May 16th 2022 at 11:53:33 PM

[up][up][up][up]...tangential, but while WandaVision was going on, I had a dumb pet theory that the MCU version of the Fantastic Four would have the android Human Torch based on reverse-engineering Vision's remains, in a sort of reversal of what happened to the two in the comics and as a Composite Character with Johnny Storm. An AI test pilot sort of deal, I guess was the logic.

Edited by Chortleous on May 16th 2022 at 1:53:53 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142324: May 17th 2022 at 12:36:14 AM

I don't know if you can act like Steve just knew Namor and Torch and never saw fit to mention them throughout his entire superhero career though.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#142325: May 17th 2022 at 12:38:46 AM

If Human Torch is introduced I wonder if we'll also get to see Spitfire and Union Jack.

Spitfire for those unfamiliar with the comics is connected to Human Torch because she got her powers from an emergency blood transfusion from Jim after she was drained of blood by her vampire uncle Baron Blood.

Yes, Spitfire gained superpowers from a blood transfusion from an android that was done to save her from a vampire.

That's not even the weirdest thing about her. A second blood transfusion from Jim decades later not only restored her powers, it de-aged her back to a teenager.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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