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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142276: May 16th 2022 at 2:03:40 PM

Pretty sure Dr Strange once banished Hulk to wander forever between dimensions

That seems worse

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#142277: May 16th 2022 at 2:07:37 PM

anything you do will just make the Hulk angrier,and yes that includes shooting him into the sun

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#142278: May 16th 2022 at 2:18:37 PM

The Illuminati were guilty of breaking the bro code, more than anything else in World War Hulk.

Honestly, they could have asked Bruce to retire to an uninhabited planet and he would have agreed.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#142279: May 16th 2022 at 2:21:09 PM

>an inhabited planet

> what if we blew it up while Hulk was on it?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142280: May 16th 2022 at 3:54:39 PM

So, ironically enough, the SHRA these days is basically considered "That thing Tony Stark did to everyone that one time" in spite of Tony's own opposition to it. Even the MCU version treats Tony as a True Believer in the idea of the Sokovia Accords, even if he constantly gives himself a pass for violating them.

Well, Tony in the MCU was being guided by his own guilt in creating Ultron (which Wanda also had a hand in, so he's not totally to blame for that) so he could be seen as being more emotionally compromised in the film version than he was in the comics version.

To be fair, the World War Hulk thing wasn't entirely their fault. They sent Hulk to a distant world of lush greenery and peace where he could live out the rest of his days finally achieving what he's always wanted: To be left alone.

But Hulk's ship was hijacked mid-transit and summoned to the brutal slave-mongering battle-world Sakaar instead. Nonetheless, Hulk managed to smash his way into ending a tyrannical empire, found love and acceptance among a people who adore him, and made his own happy ending.

But one of his own friends hated the fact that he stopped smashing, so he nuked Hulk's capital city, killed Hulk's wife, and blamed the Illuminati for it. This put Hulk on a warpath bound for revenge.

Hulk went back to Earth from a planet the Illuminati did not send him to, seeking revenge for a bombing the Illuminati did not commit. The one thing they actually did do wrong was tricking him onto the shuttle to begin with so they could send him away without his consent. And by comparison to the crimes he actually wanted revenge for, that almost seems quaint.

So when you think about it, the entirety of not only World War Hulk, but even Planet Hulk could have been avoided if the Illuminati had just asked Bruce if he wanted to go to the planet. Because the thing that hijacked Hulk's ship? That was Hulk flying into a rage over the Illuminati sending him off into space. A thing they could have avoided if they'd talked it out with him first.

Like it's true that Bruce ending up on Sakaar and the ship exploding wasn't their fault, but that doesn't change the fact that they should have told Bruce their plans.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142281: May 16th 2022 at 3:59:04 PM

The main gimmick of the Illuminati as a group is that they view themselves as smarter than everyone else (they're more accurately more intelligent than everyone else, but there is such a difference between wisdom and intelligence). That hubris and inability to properly communicate with others is their downfall every time, including in Multiverse of Madness.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#142282: May 16th 2022 at 3:59:50 PM

Well, it's the recurring theme of the Illuminati. Even if they have good intentions or a good idea, they do things in the most jerkish, bullheaded way possible and you can just dive for cover waiting for it to blow up in everyone's faces.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142283: May 16th 2022 at 4:07:59 PM

I once said that it's a inevitablity in superhero comics that every smart character (no matter in what field their smarts lie) eventually becomes a cold-hearted machiavellian schemer. The Illuminati is the logical extrapolation of that conclusion, as it's a whole team of characters who underwent that process.

Edited by Gaon on May 16th 2022 at 4:08:19 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142284: May 16th 2022 at 4:12:27 PM

Actually you know what’s funniest about how useless the Illuminati are?

They each represent some important powerful group. But because they’re a secret club, the only power they can really bring to bear are themselves because if they felt like explaining things to their teams they wouldn’t need to be a secret group

And sure they’re a powerful collection of people but that makes them no different than any other superhero team since they can’t use their greater resources and connections

They’re basically the Defenders from that era where Dr Strange didn’t want the public to know he was hanging out with Hulk so would mind wipe anyone that saw the Defenders in action

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142285: May 16th 2022 at 4:13:07 PM

The Incursion event is a byline for how disastrous things can get.

Namor especially fucks up hard choosing to betray the Illuminati in exchange for freeing Thanos and his Black Order to form the Cabal to do better work with them to destroy the worlds. The Cabal immediately take advantage of Namor, instead choosing to commit countless atrocities and indiscriminate violence on each world to Namor's horror, showcasing that he has completely lost control of the situation.

It got so bad Namor went to Doctor Doom for help who actually has figured out a way to manage the Incursions only for Doom to refuse because he was basically offended that instead of coming to him after the Illuminati failed he went with his "subhuman lot" like Thanos.

He proceeded call Namor a useless dumbass after making him beg for help. Doom is second to no one.

Edited by slimcoder on May 16th 2022 at 4:13:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142286: May 16th 2022 at 4:14:29 PM

I don’t think Doom was wrong about Namor in that situation

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#142287: May 16th 2022 at 4:16:17 PM

Namor has like fish for brains I swear..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142289: May 16th 2022 at 4:19:36 PM

He's only on the Illuminati in the first place because he basically threatens everyone with flooding if he can't join their club.

He is completely unqualified since he's never been really been an intelligent person. Even Black Bolt carries himself with a dignity Namor never possessed.

Edited by slimcoder on May 16th 2022 at 4:20:21 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#142290: May 16th 2022 at 4:21:57 PM

I feel like Namor's unlikeable reputation might be why he's not going to appear in the MCU for a long time yet,they're either saving him for when they need an unlikeable jerk superhero or they don't think they can translate the character to film without having make major changes

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#142291: May 16th 2022 at 4:57:59 PM

I mean, the Incursions were such a grimdark conflict to begin with that it's hard to see how anything they did could make things worse. Literally the entire Multiverse died in that arc.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142292: May 16th 2022 at 5:05:20 PM

Was there ever a time in his life when Namor wasn't an unlikeable jerk?

Like seriously? I hear so much about it that it sounds like he was always this way, but I doubt it.

More likely he could be an ass at times, but was still a hero until Marvel did that thing they love doing where they take the worst aspects of a character and dial them up until that's all the character is, both in-universe and out.

Kinda like what they did to most of the members of the Illuminati in fact, especially Tony, Charles and Reed.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142293: May 16th 2022 at 5:07:47 PM

Didn’t he try to flood New York in his first appearance?

Isn’t he also well known for trying seduce Sue Richards into having an affair?

Hell when the Illuminati were discussing their love lives Namor point blank tells Reed “You still have her even though I tried to steal her.”

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#142294: May 16th 2022 at 5:08:44 PM

[up][up]A hero...how?

What do you remember about him that’s heroic? Or even admirable?

His origin comic had him in a war against surface-dwellers.

Him being an asshole is a feature, not a bug.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 16th 2022 at 5:09:23 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#142295: May 16th 2022 at 5:08:50 PM

He actively did flood Wakanda.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142296: May 16th 2022 at 5:09:34 PM

He punched Nazis for a while

He gets a lot of mileage out of that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#142297: May 16th 2022 at 5:11:35 PM

[up]So did Stalin, nobody thinks he’s a good guy for it.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 16th 2022 at 5:12:09 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142298: May 16th 2022 at 5:12:09 PM

I think Namor is the original anti-hero or villain protagonist superhero.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142299: May 16th 2022 at 5:12:18 PM

I mean, not personally

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#142300: May 16th 2022 at 5:14:25 PM

Fighting Nazis is the moral equivalent of “breathing air”: congrats, you’ve hit the lowest possible bar to not be considered an inhuman wretch-and that’s being generous if we don’t look at your motives for it.

[up][up]Namor ain’t that old or unique.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 16th 2022 at 5:16:15 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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