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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142051: May 5th 2022 at 2:17:55 PM

And let me bring up that it's still really suspicious that after spending three days straight failing to get Ultron to work, the moment Tony looks away, he comes online, and immediately goes Kill All Humans.

Like, Tony himself said they were years away from getting anything off the ground, so I still find it suspicious that Ultron reached the level he did, even considering the Mind Stone was involved.

And Wanda admitted that she wasn't expecting anything like Ultron when the latter revealed himself to her and Pietro.

Like, there a lot of blame to go around between them when it comes to Ultron, but I can't help but feel like there are other factors involved that have yet to be acknowledged.

Ultron didn't just go wrong. He went wrong in a way that was ridiculously over the top.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142052: May 5th 2022 at 2:18:53 PM

Didn't Bruce help Tony create Ultron?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142054: May 5th 2022 at 2:23:09 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, but who cares about Bruce?

I wanna make fun of Tony Stark and Wanda some more.

Besides, he's got his own shit to deal with over Wanda making him attack that city.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#142055: May 5th 2022 at 2:23:31 PM

I do appreciate, at least, that the solution to Ultron isn't "this technology is evil, lock that genie back in the bottle forever", but instead "build a better robot".

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on May 5th 2022 at 5:23:57 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142056: May 5th 2022 at 2:43:06 PM

Time truly is circular and this is truly hell

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#142057: May 5th 2022 at 3:16:30 PM

Rob gonna Rob, what can you do?

Cross (Don’t ask)
#142058: May 5th 2022 at 3:25:48 PM

Just going to point out having a robot army would have been nice during both alien invasions.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#142059: May 5th 2022 at 3:35:29 PM

[up] If What If is any indication...no it wouldn't have.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#142060: May 5th 2022 at 5:45:46 PM

[up][up]

Point acknowledged.

Earth's Mightiest Heroes shows us that an army of Ultrons can be pretty useful.

.....You know, until they also go evil.

One Strip! One Strip!
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#142061: May 5th 2022 at 6:28:19 PM

Ultron went mad cause he also was based on Tony’s mind, somehow, and that + being born minutes ago + access to Twitter and Facebook drove him mad.

It’s repeatedly emphasized Ultron is very much a product of Tony and his mentality even with Wanda preying on it to make him create him, and the only reason Vision DIDNT become Ultron 2.0 was cause a God interfered and added his divine Mumbo jumbo to the mix. Otherwise we would have had two megalomaniacal robots cause Tony decided to do it all over again on his own

[up]x3 It sounds nice…until you remember Tony wanted them all over the world and no government would allow such a thing UNLESS he gives them the keys to it, and we all know how well that could go!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 5th 2022 at 8:28:15 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#142062: May 6th 2022 at 5:18:14 AM

Vision also had JARVIS as a 'base code' of sorts, a well established AI that was based on the mind of the original Edwin Jarvis. Who was by all accounts a good man with a good heart.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#142063: May 6th 2022 at 7:40:31 AM

Ultron was honestly not too far from being Tony's Green Goblin - a distillation of his absolute worst traits. He's a self-righteous Tautological Templar who is always right even if it takes some real insane troll logic to rationalize and justify how one of his fuckups or irrational decisions was actually A-OK, just like Tony at his worst.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#142064: May 6th 2022 at 7:44:36 AM

So he’s like Hank Pym’s Ultron, a distillation of all of Hank Pym’s worst traits and none of his temperance

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142065: May 7th 2022 at 4:01:49 PM

Here's an interesting thought.

After hearing some complaints about Mo M (no spoilers), do you feel the MCU is becoming way too interconnected especially with the multiverse stuff?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#142066: May 7th 2022 at 4:10:03 PM

[up] I think the Marvel Cinematic Universe should really dial down on the Multiverse aspect. I think they should introduce more street-level and cosmic-level heroes in the movies instead of more multiversal stuff. Secret Wars (2015) should function as the Grand Finale of the MCU.

PrincessGwen The Wicked Witch of the West from In the U.S.A Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
The Wicked Witch of the West
#142067: May 7th 2022 at 4:14:53 PM

Not really, since we've only had two movies and two shows focusing on the multiverse (three movies if you count Doctor Strange 1), IIRC.

"And nobody, in all of Oz, no wizard that is or was, is ever gonna bring ME DOWN!"
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#142068: May 7th 2022 at 4:40:11 PM

Re Multiverse stuff: I absolutely think not every story has to be a multiverse thing (I still have conflicted thoughts about No Way Home). Save it for characters who are particularly linked to it, and some big events. However, we haven't actually had that many MCU properties come out since the multiverse was introduced, so I think we kind of need to wait and see.

Re the MCU being too interconnected in general: it's an entirely fair criticism, but it's also kind of the deal. As somebody who has been into Marvel even before the MCU was a thing and will happily watch every property that comes out, I quite enjoy the continuity and crossover. However, I absolutely understand why it's imposing to outsiders or more casual fans. We can still have relatively-standalone properties like Moon Knight that just happen to exist in the same world, but the interconnectedness is a large part of the MCU's appeal, so you're not going to be able to please everyone.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#142069: May 7th 2022 at 8:45:12 PM

My issue isn't so much the concept of the multiverse but that most of the conversation around it has been which comic character/fancast/character from other adaptation might make an appearance. Only so much you can do with fanservice, and the actual plot has to be good too ([sideeyes No Way Home]).

Edited by Synchronicity on May 7th 2022 at 10:46:49 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#142070: May 7th 2022 at 9:03:44 PM

[up] I actually thought No Way Home's story was good. I even preferred it over MoM's plot to be honest.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142071: May 7th 2022 at 9:24:15 PM

I guess we haven't reached that point yet where the Multiverse has alternate versions of characters less so for fanservice but more for a specific original story.

Like uh DC has a pretty good bunch of these, Superman: Red Son what if Superman crash lands in the Soviet Union and the resulting changes that occurs.

Kingdom Come, aging versions of the characters dealing with an increasingly darker world.

DC: The New Frontier what if all the heroes started out in the 50s and the transition from the Golden Age to the Silver Age.

Stuff like that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#142072: May 7th 2022 at 9:55:53 PM

The Multiverse aspect does have the issue of being pushed onto characters who have actual mythoses not being explored because they're instead becoming Multiverse vehicles.

You got that really bad with FFH, where Peter's ongoing story was basically shunted aside so that the story could be about re-exploring all these characters from previous movies, to the point where he character arc gets dropped and rewritten halfway through.

Dr. Strange is a lot better about it than FFH was (like so much better about handling and balancing the concept), but there's still that underlying feeling that this isn't really what Dr. Strange is about and that he's in part kind of... along for the ride, y'know?

Heck, you even get that with characters who do broach multiverse and timeline stuff on occasion. Over in DC, it's frustrating that the Flash's first big film is going to be an adaptation of Flashpoint (already a plot that's arguably not quite about the Flash so much as he's just the catalyst of the story) that they're clearly modifying even further as an excuse for a soft-reboot, with evidently little interest in introducing The Flash's world and characters..

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 7th 2022 at 9:58:43 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#142073: May 7th 2022 at 10:11:40 PM

I guess we haven't reached that point yet where the Multiverse has alternate versions of characters less so for fanservice but more for a specific original story.

Like uh DC has a pretty good bunch of these, Superman: Red Son what if Superman crash lands in the Soviet Union and the resulting changes that occurs.

Kingdom Come, aging versions of the characters dealing with an increasingly darker world.

DC: The New Frontier what if all the heroes started out in the 50s and the transition from the Golden Age to the Silver Age.

Stuff like that.

Easier to get away with that stuff in comics, which have like 80 different titles that come out monthly. Film demands much more of an investment.

You can spend four years and $180 million making a movie about an AU Superman that fights for communism. Or you can spend that time and money making a real Superman movie. Can't do both without saturating the market, I'm afraid.

Big screen narrative space is a preciously scarce resource, and every superhero has a lot of popular characters, villains, and stories ally vying for their turn in that spotlight.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 7th 2022 at 10:12:56 AM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142074: May 7th 2022 at 10:16:07 PM

And I'm now I'm thinking of an authentic adaptation of Old Man Logan story with MCU actors tongue

So uh ya got Jeremy Renner playing an old blind Hawkeye

Mark Ruffalo as an old hillbilly cannibal rapist Hulk

Red Skull in a Captain America suit he stole from a corpse so either Hugo Weaving or Ross Marquand

James Spader as a happy Ultron whose a car mechanic married to Hawkeye's ex-wife

Jake Gyllenhaal as Mysterio who tricks Wolverine into slaughtering the X-Men

Anyone else left?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#142075: May 7th 2022 at 10:16:08 PM

DC's kinda taking that slot nowadays, since we've got, what, 4 different Batman continuities in circulation at the moment? Soon to be 5?


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