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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#142026: May 4th 2022 at 8:01:25 PM

So since the TVA weren't able to interfere with No way Home's events, does that mean the versions of the villains who were cured are safe when they get home?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#142027: May 4th 2022 at 8:03:03 PM

[up] I would presume so, yes. Otherwise, No Way Home would be almost as big of a "Shaggy Dog" Story as Thor: Ragnarok...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#142028: May 4th 2022 at 8:11:29 PM

Of course, that would depend on when the villains were sent back to their home universe.

If it was the exact moment when they left... that could be pretty bad for most of them. Like, Electro would straight be killed the instant he came back.

Edited by chasemaddigan on May 4th 2022 at 11:11:58 AM

Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#142029: May 4th 2022 at 8:48:31 PM

Same with Doc Ock, who was just about to drown when he got transported over, and even if they go back cured and survive most of them are wanted criminals.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142030: May 4th 2022 at 9:00:16 PM

I think pondering "when" Loki changed the Sacred Timeline is asking the wrong question. There's no "when", he was operating literally outside of the parameters of time itself, there isn't a "now all timelines exist" point. After Loki's actions they always have existed. The change operates retroactively.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#142031: May 4th 2022 at 9:08:23 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Oh God! Natural light!
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#142032: May 4th 2022 at 9:11:37 PM

Yeah Gaon's way of thinking is always how I viewed it.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#142033: May 4th 2022 at 10:39:43 PM

Me too, not exactly sure how this works from Earth-199999's perspective (though this might get explained in MoM).

Edited by lbssb on May 4th 2022 at 10:48:04 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#142034: May 4th 2022 at 11:36:29 PM

There's a difference between the sequential chronology here and the in-universe timeline.

The events of Loki did change the entire timeline at once. That doesn't mean that, however, back when The Avengers 1 happened the multiverse was already existence. Existence definitely changed, and had a before and after state: it means that now the events of that movie exist in a new state of existence where the multiverse exists whereas it didn't before.

Speaking fourth dimensionally, Loki's entire plot would've happened between ticks of the clock "during" Endgame.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 4th 2022 at 11:37:04 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#142035: May 5th 2022 at 1:33:10 AM

My assumption with the villains of No Way home, is that they were sent to the present with their peters. So the two timelines play out as they did anyway, with people assuming the villains are dead, and then twenty or ten years later they pop back into existence with Spidey, and they're alive and reformed.

I don't have any reason to think that other than "boy it would be simpler for the timelines if-"

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142036: May 5th 2022 at 1:36:48 AM

So Moon Knight season 1 is over.

Whats our next entirely new thing show/movie? Now that I think about it all our upcoming movies are sequels I think.

Wait does Ms. Marvel counts as a new thing right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HBarnill Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#142037: May 5th 2022 at 1:54:01 AM

Uh... isn't Moon Knight a miniseries?

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#142038: May 5th 2022 at 2:47:50 AM

Blade is property I hope will be entirely divorced from the larger MCU on introduction, even if there's an established connection with Dane Whitman.

In theory the Fantastic Four could be completely standalone, but super science and space and the cosmic is so established in the MCU I don't know if you'd even want to corner them off entirely. Even suggestions of having their oragins take place in the sixties or seventies (which I approve of) makes you think Hank and Janet should make a cameo appearance.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#142039: May 5th 2022 at 4:05:46 AM

[up]That's how I envision the Midnight Sons being in general - aside from their association with Strange and/or Jericho Drumm and a few cameos (I don't know why, but I envision one of them being Elsa saving Frank Castle from monsters and the two of them striking up an unlikely friendship after Frank compliments her choice in firearms), they should largely be their own part of the MCU. I envision it going like this.

  • Moon Knight keeps doing his thing, probably going after either Bushman or Black Spectre.
  • Blade, Elsa, and maybe Living Mummy start out together fighting Deacon Frost or Dracula, and Werewolf by Night joins them after a chance encounter (maybe Frankenstein's Monster too but that's pushing it).
  • Ghost Rider (hopefully Robbie Reyes) does his thing, probably fighting Scarecrow (with Mephisto being in the picture, but he's not at full Faustian rebellion status yet).
  • Strange recognizes the growing threat of Lilith (or Varnae) and begins to get his team assembled as a supernatural Avengers.
  • Strange gets Blade, Elsa, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Living Mummy (and Adam if he's here), and WBN in a room together and then hits up Daimon Hellstrom and Jennifer Kale while he's at it, followed by Jen bringing along Man-Thing. The lineup is complete.
  • Midnight Sons are officially a thing, time to go pull up on Lilith and/or Varnae.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on May 5th 2022 at 5:16:17 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#142040: May 5th 2022 at 12:00:10 PM

[up][up][up]It's not set in stone either way. A season 2 hasn't been announced, but it is likely.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#142041: May 5th 2022 at 12:21:55 PM

Not trying to be a downer, but I'm really not all that interested in Dr Strange and Wanda. The fact that they seem to be acting as the lynchpins for this new phase isn't exactly thrilling for me right now.

Kaze ni Nare!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#142042: May 5th 2022 at 12:28:38 PM

Maybe I'm a bit cold in that regard, but I just do not feel the slightest bit of pity for Wanda whatsoever.

Any tragedy she suffered in her life cannot even come close to justifying the utter horror she put innocent people through.

And from what I read.....well, let's just say, it's not getting any better.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#142043: May 5th 2022 at 12:30:49 PM

Its Wanda.

She's always fucking things up for everyone one way or another. She's the female Tony Stark. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#142044: May 5th 2022 at 12:32:26 PM

They don't call her the scarlet witch for nothing!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#142045: May 5th 2022 at 12:38:10 PM

It's like, I'm tempted to get dragged into the whole "Boo hoo, you lost someone you loved. Welcome to the club." discourse. But I don't even think that's my real problem. It's not about whether she's good or bad or morally ambiguous, It's just that I don't find her nearly as compelling as I'm clearly supposed to.

Kaze ni Nare!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#142046: May 5th 2022 at 12:43:11 PM

Well, I gotta say, I find her actress pretty bland.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#142047: May 5th 2022 at 12:58:16 PM

I at least can say she was spooky in the movie. Scarier than Sophie Turner as "Dark Phoenix".

Just Makima.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#142048: May 5th 2022 at 1:10:44 PM

Let me tell ya: I don't 100% love nor hate Wanda and Tony individually, but something I notice Wanda fans complain about is how Tony received basically no repercussions for Ultron, while Wanda is constantly demonized for her mistakes.

And yet...wasn't it Wanda's mind manipulation that encouraged Tony to build Ultron in the first place? And then she actively assisted in his agenda until she realized she wanted to make the Earth go boom?

I definitely agree that Tony's own bad decisions shouldn't automatically swept under the rug, but I don't think it's entirely fair to pin the blame entirely on him for Ultron. Just like how it's not entirely fair to blame Wanda for blowing up that Nigerian building.

As for the Westview incident...I'm still pondering on that one. Perhaps Multiverse of Madness will make me reflect on it once I see it tomorrow.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 5th 2022 at 1:10:59 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#142049: May 5th 2022 at 1:12:26 PM

While Tony built Ultron, Ultron is still his own man / machine, who made his own, individual decisions.

Wanda didn't build any machine that went megalomanical. She did all the deeds herself.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#142050: May 5th 2022 at 1:18:34 PM

[up] Yes, but Tony only was spurred to build Ultron after Wanda screwed with his head while wandering around in that HYDRA base in Siberia. And while Wanda didn't build Ultron, she certainly had no qualms with helping him until it didn't serve her needs, unlike Tony who tried to shut Ultron down the second he realized his creation was out of control.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 5th 2022 at 1:19:12 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."

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