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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141926: May 2nd 2022 at 12:37:49 PM

From what I hear their specific aversion to the Statue of Liberty may be because it looks similar to the Goddess of Democracy statue built after the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre.

That could make sense.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#141927: May 2nd 2022 at 12:54:23 PM

I'm increasingly of the opinion that China's banned all Marvel movies period, with each of these "explanations" having been essentially found by working backwards. It's telling that no Marvel movie has come out in China since the pandemic hit, not even Sony's non-MCU ones. And the reasons given for both NWH and MOM have been particularly egregious.

As for why, the current running theory is that China in its increasing nationalistic zeal is trying to rally around its own film industry and the Marvel brand is simply so big that they keep overshadowing them. Little tinfoil hatty, I know, but it's bizarre how exclusive yet comprehensive it's been and the alleged "sins" are all over the place.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141928: May 2nd 2022 at 12:58:57 PM

[up] Yeah, I've been reading news reports about that, and it makes a lot of sense. Having pride in your own film industry rather than the global phenomenon of an American one definitely makes sense from China's nationalistic standpoint. While I bet it's upsetting for Marvel fans in the country, there's not much they can do about it at this point.

At least mainland Chinese viewers got to witness the end of the Infinity Saga before all this started happening.

Y'know, I do have to wonder if any of the higher-ranking government officials still get to watch foreign film franchises/blockbusters in secret, like how Joseph Stalin and his Party members would watch Western films after a private dinner back in the 40s and early 50s. Maybe Xi Jinping likes Robert Downey Jr the same way Stalin was a big fan of John Wayne...

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 2nd 2022 at 1:03:12 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141929: May 2nd 2022 at 1:03:37 PM

As for why, the current running theory is that China in its increasing nationalistic zeal is trying to rally around its own film industry and the Marvel brand is simply so big that they keep overshadowing them. Little tinfoil hatty, I know, but it's bizarre how exclusive yet comprehensive it's been and the alleged "sins" are all over the place.

I don't think it's tinfoil hat-y at all, I think this is probably correct, but with one additional caveat.

I've seen a few commentators point out that the Chinese film industry has been suffering for some time and views the American film industry as being further ahead in terms of quality. I remember this one Chinese-Canadian You Tuber (I forget his channel's name) talked about this a few times. While there's definite nationalist sentiment behind such a ban, it could be in tandem with the Chinese government wanting to bolster their own film industry.

Y'know, I do have to wonder if any of the higher-ranking government officials still get to watch foreign film franchises/blockbusters in secret, like how Joseph Stalin and his Party members would watch Western films after a private dinner back in the 40s and early 50s.

I'm still not quite sure if this was something actually done in the USSR or if it's an urban legend.

Edited by Diana1969 on May 2nd 2022 at 6:06:41 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141930: May 2nd 2022 at 1:10:59 PM

[up] The Death of Stalin depicts it as having happened, and one of the Very Loosely Based on a True Story entries seems to back that up. This article also goes into detail in regards to Stalin's love of film, which includes Westerns and Spy Fiction.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 2nd 2022 at 1:11:51 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#141931: May 2nd 2022 at 1:16:55 PM

[up][up] I could see that, though it's not like they aren't letting any Hollywood movies in. They've just blocking out the Marvel blockbusters.

So I could see it working both-ways-ish, where China is trying to actively bolster and rally its citizens around its native film industry particularly through the domestic box office, but they're also trying to cheat around all the competition from Hollywood imports by straight-up removing the bigger "threats". And just going "if it's got the Marvel logo toss it" would be a relatively simple way of accomplishing that.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141932: May 2nd 2022 at 1:20:47 PM

So I could see it working both-ways-ish, where China is trying to actively bolster and rally its citizens around its native film industry particularly through the domestic box office, but they're also trying to cheat around all the competition from Hollywood imports by straight-up removing the bigger "threats". And just going "if it's got the Marvel logo toss it" would be a relatively simple way of accomplishing that.

Wouldn't surprise me. They can't completely cut themselves off from American cinema for various reasons, but they can ween themselves off to an extent.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141933: May 2nd 2022 at 5:51:39 PM

Met Gala red carpet hosts asked Danai Gurira about BP 2 because I guess someone had to, she calls it “heartwrenching” and a tribute to Chadwick.

AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#141934: May 2nd 2022 at 11:04:54 PM

Since Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is exploring the horror genre, what genres should the Marvel Cinematic Universe explore? My opinion is that it should explore Cyberpunk, Musical, Slice of Life, and Exploitation Film.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#141935: May 2nd 2022 at 11:17:56 PM

Luke Cage is pretty much a modern Blaxplotation project.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#141936: May 3rd 2022 at 12:35:38 AM

Assuming America Chavez’s backstory is the same in the MCU as told in Young Avengers, I wonder how her journey through the Multiverse worked while the events of Loki transpired. In the comics she left Utopia when she was ten and hopped from universe to universe for five or so years before settling in the 616. Here she’s a bit younger and so is the Multiverse. Were there only a handful of dimensions for her to traverse until recently? Did the death of HWR rewrite her life so that she retroactively had been traveling way before than previously? Or has she just been packing a lot of visits in a year or two?

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141937: May 3rd 2022 at 12:36:07 AM

They can try but at this point I genuinely do not believe the MCU is anti-establishment enough to pull off Cyberpunk beyond gritty neon aesthetics.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141938: May 3rd 2022 at 12:39:19 AM

The absence of legitimate superhero musicals always surprise me, with The Return of Captain Invincible being the only real one of note. I'd definitely like to see the MCU trying its hand at that.

Aside from already mentioned Cyberpunk, I'd like to see Noir, Western, Heroic Bloodshed, Chanbara Jidaigeki (a.k.a samurai films) and a straight up Kaiju film. Noir and Western-esque superhero films have had their times in the sun in the last decade (The Batman being the former, Logan the latter), but Heroic Bloodshed (allá John Wick) so far hasn't really. Chanbara Jidaigeki and Kaiju would just be extremely fun.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141939: May 3rd 2022 at 12:47:44 AM

The absence of legitimate superhero musicals always surprise me, with The Return of Captain Invincible being the only real one of note.

Those poor tenors didn’t get injured on Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark for you to erase them like this.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141940: May 3rd 2022 at 12:53:13 AM

The absence of legitimate superhero musicals always surprise me

Really? Why so?

but Heroic Bloodshed (allá John Wick) so far hasn't really.

Give him Gun Fu or Gun Kata and I think the Punisher would count.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141941: May 3rd 2022 at 12:55:35 AM

I meant more specifically films (Batman: The Brave and the Bold had the legendary Music Meister episode and Legion (2017) often dipped into elaborate musica sequences, including its most climactic showdown, for other examples outside of theatrical films), but point taken.

Dazzler still waits for her time to shine.

EDIT [up]

Really? Why so?

Musical is a very popular (though not as popular as it once was) and very colorful film genre often described as operating on bright colors, utopian ideals, wish fulfillment and suspension of disbelief. That description isn't far off from superheroes, it's just that the wish fulfillment involves hitting people in the jaw rather than hitting high notes.

Give him Gun Fu or Gun Kata and I think the Punisher would count.

Yeah, he'd be one of the simplest (with some tweaks). Deadpool, Cable and Fantomex being other notable examples.

Edited by Gaon on May 3rd 2022 at 1:00:36 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141942: May 3rd 2022 at 12:56:50 AM

Literally, considering her power-set is about converting sound into light.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Chortleous she/her friend to the hooved (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
she/her friend to the hooved
#141943: May 3rd 2022 at 12:57:44 AM

[up][up][up]Punisher never really felt ideal for that sort of stylized artfully-choreographed violence, rather something more ugly and brutal akin to Nobody. Mind you, he could still pull it off, of course.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141944: May 3rd 2022 at 1:06:23 AM

A few of Marvel's 90s antiheroes and gunslingers could qualify as heroic bloodshed with some tweaks too. Misty Knight, Black Widow, Domino, Solo and Blade easily come to mind.

Edited by windleopard on May 3rd 2022 at 9:09:30 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141945: May 3rd 2022 at 1:06:38 AM

[up][up][up][up] Fantomex does work pretty well for a heist movie.

That combination of intense gunplay combined with the mannerisms of a gentleman thief that only a fake Frenchman can do.

Edited by slimcoder on May 3rd 2022 at 1:06:48 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#141946: May 3rd 2022 at 1:14:55 AM

I personally think a Red Wolf neo-Western set in the present where he's the local sheriff or a vigilante defending his reservation from human traffickers would be a way to adapt him into the MCU, for what it's worth.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#141947: May 3rd 2022 at 2:21:04 AM

Gambit and Rogue would make for a great heist movie too. Just w/ more sleight of hand and cat-burglary. And there's a laundry list of kaiju in Marvel (Fin Fang Foom and Mole Man's menagerie come to mind).

Regarding chanbara, there's Psylocke (especially now that she got her original body back) and she can go up against both The Hand and Silver Samurai. Though I suspect it'll inevitably default to Wolverine and his son. Come to think of it, how would a Wolverine movie w/ all 3 of his children look? Four if you count Poison.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#141948: May 3rd 2022 at 2:22:29 AM

Come to think of it, Wolverine does dabble in a lot of genres too doesn't he?

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141949: May 3rd 2022 at 2:32:27 AM

He's over a century old thanks to his Healing Factor. Gives him a lot of time to dabble.

Heck, in one comicbook miniseries he got involved in a mafia story. He was pretty much an Invincible Hero in that one since this was the ordinary mafia, not Marvel's other organized crime families who have superpowered operatives of their own.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#141950: May 3rd 2022 at 2:42:11 AM

[up]Granted I will loudly and audibly facepalm in cinema if he shows up to the MCU and a couple of appearances later gets away w/ his Patch disguise.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!

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