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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141401: Apr 13th 2022 at 8:33:50 PM

I speculate that Frank must've been snapped by Thanos, because if not, there would be barely any criminal enterprises for Clint to slaughter in the five-year interim before it was reversed. If he was still alive, something tells me they would've met and/or clashed.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141402: Apr 13th 2022 at 8:36:37 PM

Spider-Man always seems to have a non-ending supply of purse snatchers, bank robbers, and the like so maybe Punisher leaves them alone to make up for that time he attacked Spider-Man for the Jackal.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141403: Apr 13th 2022 at 8:38:49 PM

Punisher stories are actually about the opposite of that. The more criminals he mows down the more rise from the ground to match him, usually even more ruthless and sociopathic than the rest. In essence his methodology radicalizes crime.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#141404: Apr 13th 2022 at 10:41:22 PM

Has any comic book ever had the Punisher try storming the Latverian embassy to get at Doctor Doom?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#141405: Apr 13th 2022 at 11:24:24 PM

[up][up]Like an antibiotic spurring the surviving pathogens to evolve.

Daredevil s2e4 opening up with the Kitchen Irish going on an absolutely brutal rampage of retaliation against Frank was really neat in that regard.

Of course then he just mows them down too, and the gang is extinct within the first episode of his own show, so apparently the solution is just even more Punishment. tongue

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Apr 13th 2022 at 2:26:01 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141406: Apr 14th 2022 at 12:04:20 AM

Punisher has that issue where he tends to move on from an area after taking out some heads and as a result generates a power vacuum.

He doesn't stay and maintain, he leaves it setting up new guys to eventually take the old position.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141407: Apr 14th 2022 at 12:20:12 AM

I'm not surprised.

Nobody seems to like the Hood.

...was he a Brian Michael Bendis creation?

I think he was.

He was created by Brian K. Vaughn. It was when Bendis started writing him that people started hating him.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#141408: Apr 14th 2022 at 5:17:28 AM

To be fair, people also started hating Jessica Jones and Luke Cage when Bendis wrote them.

Because he kept shoving them everywhere.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141409: Apr 14th 2022 at 6:44:26 AM

Hood's got a good concept and could be a compelling character in the MCU with the right approach, but Bendis ruins everything and I don't know how introducing him would go over given how much Bendis made people hate him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141410: Apr 14th 2022 at 6:49:45 AM

What is the whole thing surrounding Hood?

All I know about him is that his name is like a reverse of Peter Parker or something.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#141411: Apr 14th 2022 at 7:05:29 AM

Parker Robbins, he's a crime lord that has a magic hood and boots he took from a demon he had killed.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141413: Apr 14th 2022 at 7:14:28 AM

I think he had the norn stones for a while

He just kinda gets new power sources whenever he loses one

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#141414: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:00:42 AM

The one good part of The Hood worth doing IMO is his New Kingpin of Crime stint where he managed to finagle an army of C-list street-level supervillains into something vaguely resembling a gang.

I've brought up the MCU needing more low-level bad guys for flavor before and that'd certainly be one way to just do a lot of that at once.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#141415: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:16:47 AM

Also briefly had two infinity gems. He punched out Red Hulk, because of course he did.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141416: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:18:00 AM

The MCU desperately needs more threats that aren't world-ending. I thought Spider-Man Homecoming was great in doing that but both subsequent spidey films walked that back.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#141417: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:26:06 AM

Mysterio kinda subverted that too, so No Way Home was the only Spidey film to play that straight.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Apr 14th 2022 at 11:36:39 AM

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141418: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:35:16 AM

Due to the Giant Event-Driven Earthshattering Blockbuster Spectacle nature of the MCU, its superheroes have a very different vibe from the comics. You don't get the same impression that they're, like, out there fighting super-crime every day - which complicates discussions around things like the importance of the Avengers.

They'll sometimes talk like the characters do stuff offscreen. But it rarely feels like it. It's hard to shake the impression that Tony Stark spent far more time sitting around thinking about ways to counter Thanos's next invasion than he did having Iron Man battles with supervillains. Or that Bruce Banner Hulks out maybe once or twice every couple of years. Or that Vulture and Mysterio were the only supervillains Peter ever fought in his high school career.

Things that warrant a superhero response in the MCU feel few and far between - and the characters involved usually have a personal stake of some kind, rather than just being peace officers trying to thwart a crime. Which then makes it weird when characters talk about superheroing like it's a thing anyone does.

Note that this also started happening in the comics in recent decades too. With the shift away from oneshots and towards more arc-driven fare, ordinary superheroing became some background thing that we just assume the characters are doing between stories. Everything suddenly has to be some grand event. Doc Ock never just wants to rob a bank anymore.

Whole ass comic runs go by like this.

  1. Arc 1: Formation of the super-team! They fight their first serious nemesis, then band together and agree to fight crime.
  2. Arc 2: They cement their team by defeating another supervillain and learning a bit about each other.
  3. Arc 3: The dramatic finale! Huge earthshattering stakes! Nothing will ever be the same again! Characters die! Others go their separate ways! The team is FRACTURED to its core!

With Arc 2 being optional.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 14th 2022 at 8:38:23 AM

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#141419: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:42:17 AM

In Demon in a Bottle there was a scene that stuck out to me where Tony sees a woman whose car stalled and flies down to help. It doesn’t affect the plot at all, but it’s a neat way of showing what a nice guy he is. It’s hard to picture a scene that casual happening with most MCU superheroes, given the often heightened stakes of their stories.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 14th 2022 at 8:43:22 AM

DavidMerrick from Ottawa, ON Since: Jun, 2018
#141420: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:46:58 AM

All of the above is why I appreciated the relatively low stakes and street-level crime of Hawkeye so much. No world-ending scenarios, just a bunch of guys in tracksuits saying "bro."

(That and I'm always fond of action comedies set at Christmas.)

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141421: Apr 14th 2022 at 8:49:35 AM

I find it interesting with the Hood and Eric O'Grady how they were introduced as assholish anti-hero characters (and as I understand it, reflected then-current trends about the kind of characters that were popular), and then I guess because they were disliked by readers, ended up as villains.

And I find it kind of amusing with The Hood because the premise for the character is rather similar to Mark Millar's Wanted (but with the powers of The Darkness).

I would be up for seeing The Hood as a villain in the MCU. Perhaps as a Scarlet Witch opponent or an Eviler than Thou character in Agatha Harkness' tv series.

I like the Wanda idea in particular, since The Hood makes her look better by comparison/makes for a good foil.

Edit - And yeah, I agree that there should be more low level threats.

Edited by Hodor2 on Apr 14th 2022 at 10:51:20 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141422: Apr 14th 2022 at 9:24:03 AM

The heroes who try to maintain the "regular low-level superhero shenanigans" vibe are the "street-level" gang of Marvel. The likes of Spider-Man, Moon Knight, Daredevil and Iron Fist are semi-often shown doing random low-level detour shit. Moon Knight had a one-issue tie-in to Devil's Reign (the most recent WORLD SHATTERING EVENT of marvel's urbane heroes) that was functionally Moon Knight allowing himself to be arrested so he can beat up a guy (who was in jail but basically ruled it) and wife abuser who kept threatening his ex-wife and child. That's it, no greater shenanigans.

Spider-Man: Homecoming is I think the movie that got closest to that casual vibe (with Spidey fighting bank robers with anti-gravity weapons and whatnot and the stated plot point of Vulture selling sci-fi gizmos to any two-bit-thug on the street) but neither the spidey trilogy nor the MCU at large really rolled with it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141423: Apr 14th 2022 at 9:32:41 AM

In addition to the lack of low-level threats, I also find myself missing teambuilding shenanigans from the films and 'canon' miniseries. Claremont did 'X-Men playing baseball' a few times for that reason. They're a respite from high-level stakes that also help characterization, and yet the only one I remember off the top of my head is the dinner for Age of Ultron. It feels like everything else is infighting or otherwise heavy conversations.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 14th 2022 at 11:33:24 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141424: Apr 14th 2022 at 9:41:06 AM

Moon Knight had a one-issue tie-in to Devil's Reign (the most recent WORLD SHATTERING EVENT of marvel's urbane heroes) that was functionally Moon Knight allowing himself to be arrested so he can beat up a guy (who was in jail but basically ruled it) and wife abuser who kept threatening his ex-wife and child

Oh so THAT'S why I saw all those jokes about Moon Knight being Rorschach from Watchmen.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#141425: Apr 14th 2022 at 9:46:34 AM

Spider-Man: Homecoming and Hawkeye (2021) definitely feel like the lowest-stakes instalments in the MCU. Maybe Ant-Man and the Wasp too, since the core stakes for the characters are mostly personal (rescuing Jan, Ava curing her instability, Scott not trying to get caught breaking his probation).

Even the Netflix shows usually have some major stake involving gang wars over control of the city. Although I haven't seen all of them.


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