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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141251: Apr 6th 2022 at 6:59:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] Hey, if Sonic the Hedgehog and Pokemon can have critically acclaimed movies, that idea might not be too farfetched. Though I'm betting money that the superhero deriders will likely start complaining about those films too, and try to lump them in with the superhero genre. Especially if Nintendo tries to make a Smash Bros universe or something...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141252: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:01:11 PM

Squeenix intensifies

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141253: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:04:07 PM

Actually, I'm kind of hoping that in the future, the superhero genre gradually moves from movies to TV over time. I've honestly enjoyed the MCU's TV shows as a whole, because I think they can properly simulate reading issues of a comic book more than a big-budget action movie can. The movies are still great for great big ensemble films, but I can't deny that it's more fun and cheaper to follow the Disney and Netflix shows.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Apr 6th 2022 at 7:04:45 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141254: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:17:52 PM

[up][up]There’s one tweet in the lead-up to Cruella that’s burned in my brain:

That aside, it would be nice for culture talk to not be dominated by Big Existing IP and I think that’s something the MCU has at least accelerated if not directly contributed to.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141255: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:27:51 PM

True. I mean, big franchise films have existed for a while, from Star Wars to James Bond, but I can't deny the MCU definitely has taken its place as the Big IP.

Sometimes, I do wonder where the world would be right now if Iron Man flopped at the box office.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#141256: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:29:14 PM

Much like games, it is hard to find new IP's in both film and gaming because more often than not ideas tend to gel with each other. People compared BOTW with Horizon and Nier Automata for example despite them both having different styles of gameplay and story.

[up] The DCEU would be having its shit together for one. Hell just before Iron Man 1 Justice League Mortal nearly beat Marvel to the punch.

Edited by Mizerous on Apr 6th 2022 at 10:30:13 AM

Just Makima.
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#141257: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:48:35 PM

It's been a literal decade and the bubble still doesn't look like it's about to burst, though it has staggered with COVID-19.

And for that matter, just when everyone thought that covid was going to kill movie theaters, it were superhero movies that brought people back. 6 of the top 10 highest grossing films -including the top 4- of 2021 were superhero movies.

Edited by Akirakan on Apr 6th 2022 at 9:48:53 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141258: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:49:19 PM

Justice League Mortal?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#141259: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:54:25 PM

Here, the film was likely gonna be the first to kick off a real cinematic universe of superheroes and DC had all their players long before Marvel got the film rights to X-Men/FF back.

Edited by Mizerous on Apr 6th 2022 at 10:55:50 AM

Just Makima.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141260: Apr 6th 2022 at 7:55:36 PM

An error occurred.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141261: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:21:02 PM

For the record, Justice League Mortal would not have beat Iron Man to the theaters in all likelihood. The movie was scheduled to film in 2008 (while Iron Man was filmed in 2007 and released in 2008). Discounting the possibility of the movie ending up a utter and total shitshow (as it happens so often), I think the most likely outcome of JL Mortal being made and released to success (and assuming Iron Man turns out the same) would just be DC and Marvel dueling in parity rather than Marvel getting a near decade-long headstart.

As for my two cents in the age of superheroes (as Syncrhonicity brought it up), I'm inclined to agree the "IP machines" are a troublesome trend but I've always felt that superhero films aren't really the cause so much as a correlated side-effect. The problem is that studios like Warner and Disney have been allowed to grow unchecked and no one has the actual teeth to push them back.

Of course I don't think the superhero boom can last forever, but the sallivating expectation people have about superhero films just crashing and fading away is unrealistic. Aside people having no sense of scale with the western comparison (western movies had a monumental impact in cinema for nearly 50 years, superheroes have at best had 2/5ths of that if you're generous and start counting from X-men), I think the crucial difference many don't realize is that "superhero" is what uruguayan critic Nelson Carro could call "a parasitic genre". Unlike westerns, superhero is a extremely malleable and elastic definition, as superhero comics have made their bones on cannibalizing and absorbing other genres (from sci-fi, fantasy, horror, noir, comedy, melodrama, e.t.c) that happen to be popular to revitalize themselves. It's how superhero comics lasted this long (e.g. Man-Thing] and Captain Carrot are technically both grouped under "superhero").

In cinema part of the frustration is that for all superhero films we've had the mainstream genre still really barely scratches the surface, with the MCU in particular being famous for trying to make their heroes stick to a pattern that's bound to be exhausted. I think the MCU itself is dimly aware of this going by overtures towards different approaches (like Feige showing partial nods towards r-rated movies with Deadpool 3 or the tv shows making bolder creative choices), but even if it wasn't I doubt killing off the MCU out of formula exhaustion would kill superhero movies. Superheroes would just adapt and reform for a newer age, like they have done in the comics for decades.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#141262: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:32:44 PM

Would Marvel dare to use Man-Thing for a movie?

Wake me up at your own risk.
fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#141263: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:36:55 PM

Considering DC has a Swamp Thing TV show and the obviously unfortunate name that will be very hard to market, probably not. Maybe as a side character and a running gag will be people drawing attention to how his name sounds like a euphemism for penis.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#141264: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:38:12 PM

He's not really the kind of character people casually make fun of.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#141265: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:44:24 PM

As long as it's not a Giant-Size Man-Thing.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#141266: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:47:02 PM

Yeah, I guess so, considering he can secrete acid whenever someone feels a strong negative emotion.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141267: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:47:29 PM

Man-Thing is hard to make into a protagonist even in the comics, being mute and animalistic. In his own comics he's usually a sort of force of nature stumbling in and out of events he barely comprehends (in fact a lot of writers just bypass this by making him talk, but I always felt that misses the point of the character, and I'm probably not alone given that's always reversed in short order). I doubt he gets a movie, but if Marvel goes down the path of supernatural characters as they're going now (allá Moon Knight and Blade) they're bound to run into Man-Thing sooner or later. He's a fairly popular Cult Classic sort of character that never sold that well but has always maintaned a steady presence in comics because people just find him neat (and he did have some historic significance in 1970's Marvel as a precursor to artistic boldness that would come in the 80's).

If I had to guess he'll eventually get a supporting role in one of those (Doctor Strange, Blade, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, e.t.c) movies/shows and depending on how much of an Ensemble Dark Horse he ends up being, getting his own spin-off at Disney+ or somesuch. Movie seems far off.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141268: Apr 6th 2022 at 8:54:37 PM

I'm reminded he was a member of the Suicide Squad-era Thunderbolts and was used as their transport by getting inside him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#141269: Apr 6th 2022 at 9:58:04 PM

[up]

....

.... are you saying....

<don't do it>

....they climbed inside....

<Stahp! For the love of all that's good, Stahp!>

....THE GIANT-SIZED MAN THING?!!!!

......don't worry folks. I've just reserved myself a seat in hell for that joke. I know it and accept it.

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#141271: Apr 7th 2022 at 12:13:15 AM

I'd argue that, if you extend the definition of superhero movies beyond the conventional costume/codename dynamic, the superhero "boom" extends back all the way through the 90's. The Matrix, The Phantom Menace, Blade, Men in Black, Terminator 2: all movies about superpowered heroes fighting bad guys.

Pretty much since CGI effects became workable for big budget movies, the superhero genre has been dominating. Because, really, superhero movies are just action movies where the hero pulls off especially outlandish stunts.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141272: Apr 7th 2022 at 12:30:39 AM

I am reminded of on a manga sales article that someone pointed out for all the people bragging about manga dominating comic book sales, the largest selling manga are primarily battle manga which they called "superhero stories in Japanese paper".

Never fails to bring a chuckle every time I think of it.

Hell Japan has its own long-running superhero franchises as well. Most famously Ultraman, Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, all of which have been running since the 60s-70s at this point. And they make a lot of stuff, every installment of Super Sentai and Kamen Rider comes with boatloads of movies and TV specials alongside the main TV shows.

Even more striking is that both Kamen Rider and Ultraman have reached a decline in the 80s that put them on break for a long while before a new show completely revitalizes the franchises in the 90s where they have been having a new installment every year since.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141273: Apr 7th 2022 at 2:46:42 AM

Man-Thing could not work in a standalone movie or series. He'd only work as an inextricable part of the Midnight Sons or another supernatural team as a Groot-like character.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#141274: Apr 7th 2022 at 2:50:28 AM

You think they'll try something with the New Warriors or has that ship sailed?

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#141275: Apr 7th 2022 at 4:20:46 AM

The original roster (minus Richard Rider) could work as a street-level superpowered neighborhood watch. The last attempt to relaunch them in the comics w/ the new roster however....

Edited by KRider on Apr 7th 2022 at 4:21:10 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!

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