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MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
Nov 26th 2021 at 3:59:55 PM

Man, I just want to see the current active heroes hang out, eat and use their powers to do fun stuff. Basically a modern mix of the Shawarma scene from the first Avengers movie and everyone trying to lift Thor's hammer in Age of Ultron.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Nov 26th 2021 at 4:00:20 AM

"Somehow it got easy to laugh out loud."
dmcreif from Novi Grad, Sokovia Relationship Status: Robosexual
Nov 26th 2021 at 4:43:28 PM

[up] Yeah, we don't really get many scenes like that. I mean, it's kinda disappointing. For Wanda, at least, it would be nice to see her having interactions with her teammates besides Vision.

Actually, the same is true for Vision. By primarily relegating Vision to scenes with Wanda, we were denied a chance to see Tony try to be a pseudo-parent to the synthezoid.

The cold never bothered me anyway
MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
Nov 26th 2021 at 4:57:08 PM

[up] Aside from trying to jumpstart his existence in Age of Ultron and maybe a scene or two from Civil War, Tony barely seems to acknowledge the guy.

"Somehow it got easy to laugh out loud."
slimcoder Carnage Rules
Carnage Rules
Nov 26th 2021 at 4:59:54 PM

Well Tony does have a habit of moving on from projects for the next one.

Vision's already a done thing.

"You know my name. Now SCREAM it."
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:03:25 PM

There is a pretty important scene in Civil War where Tony is disappointed Vision makes errors

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:04:10 PM

[up][up] I think I'd give this particular project a little more focus if it was a sentient android with a goddamn Infinity Stone in its forehead.

"Somehow it got easy to laugh out loud."
MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:06:57 PM

Speaking of Wanda interacting with other people, I really hope that Scott praising Wanda in Civil War will pay off one day. I feel like that would be a fun friendship between the two of them.

Also, if Scott ends up in some kind of mystical trouble somewhere down the line, I have a feeling Wanda might feel slightly more inclined to help him out.

"Somehow it got easy to laugh out loud."
slimcoder Carnage Rules
Carnage Rules
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:07:09 PM

An interesting distinction between Tony and Hank Pym.

Hank very much cares about what he does, every mistake he does forever weighs on his soul and he generally can't let things go.

Tony though try as he might has trouble with that. His very flighty nature means that he has a habit of forgetting and moving onto to different shit unless someone reminds him or holds him to it.

"You know my name. Now SCREAM it."
MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
slimcoder Carnage Rules
Carnage Rules
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:11:31 PM

Ultron the perfect example.

To Hank his greatest failure that will forever haunt him for the rest of his life.

To Tony eh another day another failure, anyone got a drink? tongue

"You know my name. Now SCREAM it."
MatthewWayne The Man Outside Reality from London, England (1950) Relationship Status: Not war
The Man Outside Reality
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:12:52 PM

[up] Well until that one woman guilt-shamed him into caring about Sokovia over a year later. Then we gotta sign away our rights and become Thunderbolt Ross's political attack dogs.

"Somehow it got easy to laugh out loud."
M84 Despite everything, it's still you from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Despite everything, it's still you
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:14:02 PM

Tony at least still learns from the mistakes. He doesn't make the same mistakes — he just keeps making new ones.

To Hank his greatest failure that will forever haunt him for the rest of his life.

In comics Hank's case it doesn't help that Ultron keeps coming back. Of course he cannot get over Ultron when Ultron won't leave him and everyone else alone.

Edited by M84 on Nov 26th 2021 at 9:18:41 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:14:05 PM

Not a few years later, Tony designed a system that could deliver murderous drones to any spot on the map without fail or oversight.

Tony read on the problem with Ultron didn't seem to be "don't build big guns that can threaten the world," but "make sure you're the only one who holds the trigger." Which is in line for him.

He then gave that trigger to an impressionable teenager.

Tony's big flaw is that he believes that as long as he can control everything, all the problems of the world will fall at his feet. Everything he learns is still filtered through that assumption. He and Cap are similar that way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 26th 2021 at 5:15:07 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
M84 Despite everything, it's still you from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Despite everything, it's still you
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:15:27 PM

[up]Like I said, still a mistake, just not the same mistake.

That he gave the trigger to someone else is still Character Development in a way — he no longer thinks he is the only one who should have the trigger. So while he still thinks there needs to be control, he no longer believes it has to be him doing the controlling.

Edited by M84 on Nov 26th 2021 at 9:16:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder Carnage Rules
Carnage Rules
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:17:36 PM

His ultimate problem is his inability to accept that he can't fix everything which transfers to his inability to accept that some ideas are unworkable.

As [up][up] he can't just accept Ultron was a failure and put the idea to rest, no he has to fix it he believes he can improve it and make it work despite how fucking disastrous it was the first time.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 26th 2021 at 5:18:16 AM

"You know my name. Now SCREAM it."
M84 Despite everything, it's still you from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Despite everything, it's still you
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:20:39 PM

Tony's thing is that he's the world's greatest engineer who has trouble accepting that not every problem in life is an engineering problem.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Weirdguy149 Death, Destroyer of Worlds from The Bomb Shelter Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Death, Destroyer of Worlds
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:24:11 PM

In my personal headcanon, the reason Tony and Vision haven't talked much is basically due to Tony and Wanda having a mutual unease with each other. She traumatized him and he's kinda the reason Pietro and Sokovia are dead and ruined respectively.

We're in the endgame now, Tinky Winky.
slimcoder Carnage Rules
Carnage Rules
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:26:20 PM

And to think that soon Riri Williams will inherit all his deficiencies as she's effectively the second coming of Tony Stark.

The true successor of Tony Stark not just because she is a genius but also because she's also a pretty crap person with an ego problem.

"You know my name. Now SCREAM it."
dmcreif from Novi Grad, Sokovia Relationship Status: Robosexual
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:26:47 PM

Sometimes I wish there was a spot somewhere in Civil War where they could've acknowledged that Tony effectively made Project Insight 2.0 when he made Ultron. I think that's why Age of Ultron had the camera cut to Steve looking so troubled when Wanda says to him, "Ultron can't tell the difference between saving the world and destroying it. Where do you think he gets that?" because, y'know, he remembers Fury being on-board with a project that HYDRA planned to use to kill at least 20 million+ people they saw as threats to their existence.

Plus, What If...? episode 8 shows us that the heroes were lucky Vision turned out to be benevolent. Wouldn't want this synthezoid to be evil. (Although Vision's shown that his morals generally get compromised when Wanda is concerned; he was breaking the Accords regularly to have romantic holidays with her, and the zombie episode of What If...? had him feeding survivors to her).

The cold never bothered me anyway
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Nov 26th 2021 at 5:56:09 PM

I also find a bit weird that there was never really a scene where Tony struggles to really separate Vision from JARVIS. Even in Age of Ultron, Tony seems to immediately accept that Vision is 100% a different person from JARVIS. While he technically is, you'd think Tony would have some lingering feelings about someone sharing JARVIS's voice and mannerisms.

FGHIK from Right behind you
Nov 26th 2021 at 6:19:08 PM

he remembers Fury being on-board with a project that HYDRA planned to use to kill at least 20 million+ people they saw as threats to their existence.

You know, I was going to talk about how he was only on-board with "Helicarriers with big guns" rather than the algorithm and killing people before they become threats, but after re-watching the scene where he talks to Cap, he was aware of and okay with that too. Maybe not to the extreme Hydra took it, but damn. Guy is a lot more morally gray than I realized.

Edited by FGHIK on Nov 26th 2021 at 8:21:26 AM

I missed the part where that's my problem.
dmcreif from Novi Grad, Sokovia Relationship Status: Robosexual
Nov 26th 2021 at 6:52:49 PM

You know, I was going to talk about how he was only on-board with "Helicarriers with big guns" rather than the algorithm and killing people before they become threats, but after re-watching the scene where he talks to Cap, he was aware of and okay with that too. Maybe not to the extreme Hydra took it, but damn. Guy is a lot more morally gray than I realized.

Fury wouldn't be the first one either. Howard and Peggy saw no problems with inviting Zola to join SHIELD, knowing full well about all of the things he did for Schmidt, and I've read some theories that suggest that Howard and Peggy might've been aware of some of the work Zola was doing to Bucky (which might explain Howard recognizing Bucky when Bucky was dispatched by HYDRA to kill him and steal the super soldier serums).

The cold never bothered me anyway
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Nov 26th 2021 at 10:55:07 PM

Just watched Shang-Chi (had no idea it was already on Disney+), I really enjoyed it. Great character work, good world-building and continuity, and great aesthetics. Plot was a bit cliche at points but Tropes Are Not Bad, it made it work and kept things feeling fresh.

The Republican Party is a terrorist organization.
Nov 26th 2021 at 11:02:26 PM

[up][up]I figured Howard recognized Bucky because they'd met during the War. Plus, Bucky was part of the war memorial set up after the war which is exactly the kind of thing a guy like Howard was likely to have been involved with, funding-wise.

unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 26th 2021 at 11:05:04 PM

" She traumatized him and he's kinda the reason Pietro and Sokovia are dead and ruined respectively. "

I really wish they was a scene about this since the whole "you traumatize me"never show up again.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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