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Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
May 3rd 2021 at 5:19:04 PM

Let’s admit, starting the movie with a spaceship crash would be very striking

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Beatman1 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
May 3rd 2021 at 5:40:09 PM

[up]That too.

I saw the 13 seconds of Eternals footage. Not enough to base it on, but walking doesn’t get across “WHEN GODS WALKED THE EARTH” which is going to be the key struggle. That’s the problem with only 13 seconds of footage.

slimcoder King Shark is a Shark
King Shark is a Shark
May 3rd 2021 at 5:40:13 PM

I feel we have long since evolved from simple origin movies and are capable of immediately establishing the characters powers, dynamics, and mythology from the get go.

"It's been an honor to fight by your side."
Beatman1 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
May 3rd 2021 at 5:42:02 PM

The days of LEATHERQUEST 2000 seem to be in the rear view especially with the more recent photos of productions -

Watchtower A Wannabe Writer from Beyond Thunderdome Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
A Wannabe Writer
May 3rd 2021 at 5:53:19 PM

[up][up] I keep seeing people say we're done with origin stories and then other people wonder who the hell all these new characters are and why they're supposed to care.

Truth of the matter is it usually helps to at least contextualize things especially if you're gonna add a whole new chunk into the verse. Also what constitutes an "origin story" is a lot more soft and fluid than people give credit to.

Edited by Watchtower on May 3rd 2021 at 8:53:42 AM

lbssb Pokémon Master/Justice League Member from Beacon Academy
Pokémon Master/Justice League Member
May 3rd 2021 at 5:58:43 PM

I'm totally in agreement with Mole Man being the first FF villain. Doom could easily work as a sort of overarching figure, though maybe less like Thanos and more what they seem to be setting up Zemo to be. If Galactus was the next "saga" Big Bad, I could see Doom pulling an Enemy Mine with the heroes in the end.

May 3rd 2021 at 6:06:10 PM

[up] Yeah, I'd argue that the number 1 rule for the MCU Fantastic Four movie is "Don't go straight to Doctor Doom as the main bad guy". You can introduce Doom, and you probably should at least allude to his existence, but a different main villain will help set it apart from the previous attempts at the franchise right off the bat.

FGHIK from Right behind you
May 3rd 2021 at 6:09:56 PM

I think origin movies can be skipped if they're well known and/or simple, but otherwise it's liable to cause a lot of confusion.

I missed the part where that's my problem.
May 3rd 2021 at 6:23:16 PM

Well... complete absence of an origin will cause problems regardless, because the origin isn't just for the macro need to introduce a franchise to the viewer, but is also there to inform the characters in the story itself.

That's the problem they ran into with Spidey: when faced with the issue of "people are already well aware of Spider-Man's origin," they jumped all the way into the opposite direction and decided the answer was "so we pretend that it doesn't exist." But there's no reason not doing the full origin story has to also mean not having that part of the story be present in the story entirely - and doing this ultimately led to them having to use Tony as a crutch to give the emotional center to the character that Uncle Ben previously held, resulting in the complaint that everything about Peter ultimately feels like it's about Tony instead.

Hence, I think the best way to do it for FF is to have the origin have already happened when the movie starts, but for it to be a talking point in the film and to flash back to the incident a couple times in the story - have it still be a present part of the characters' characterization, while not needing to be set-up and executed in full on film.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2021 at 6:26:10 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
May 3rd 2021 at 6:26:14 PM

[up][up] Yeah, and I think that's basically what Marvel is doing. The only time they completely skipped over the origin story was with Hulk and Spider-Man, both of which for the same reason. The origin story had recently been told in movies outside the MCU, so there was no reason to re-tell it.

The Fantastic Four might be a bit of a grey area, since there are Fantastic Four movies that do tell the origin story, but there's a little bit more distance from them.

We probably don't want to just drop them into the MCU without explanation, but beyond that I can see an argument for either direction.

Edited by Falrinn on May 3rd 2021 at 6:26:25 AM

May 3rd 2021 at 6:31:42 PM

Fantastic Four's origin is interesting, because it's big and elaborate, but not actually related to who they are as characters. They're not motivated by their origin, it's not related to any of their major enemies in any significant way, nor did it make them into the people they are on the inside - it mostly just gave them the power to do amazing things. It's really just an excuse for them to exist.

For this reason... yeah. While it should be mentioned and present in the story, what's important is that the adventure they're on is paramount in the narrative.

At most plot significant, say, if it is the Mole Man, have the spaceship crash be the way they discovered the Mole Man's tunnel network - just for instance. But start with it, don't make it half the plot like previous films did.

Captain Marvel is a good example of the MCU doing its story, and letting the exact origin be told over time. A better example is probably The Incredible Hulk, which is mediocre but in regards tot his still did a good job balancing the origin - which happened long before the plot started - and the current story.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2021 at 6:32:22 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Watchtower A Wannabe Writer from Beyond Thunderdome Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
A Wannabe Writer
May 3rd 2021 at 6:53:22 PM

[up] Y'know it kinda has me wondering if the FF could maybe benefit from being established in an earlier movie or show, like what Civil War did with Black Panther, Wandavision with Monica Rambeau, and FAWS with USAgent. Have another piece be their stealth origin just to get it out of the way, so the FF movie could just get to the heart of whatever.

RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
May 3rd 2021 at 6:54:39 PM

My will-almost-certainly-never-happen idea:

Make the FF film (or series) a Mockumentary, with their origin quickly covered by some video clips of their rocket launch/crash and info conveyed through narration and interviews.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
fredhot16 from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
May 3rd 2021 at 7:17:58 PM

When is that Loki show coming out?

Suspension of disbelief: I can believe in time travel but it still has to make sense with it's own rules.
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
May 3rd 2021 at 7:20:00 PM

[up][up][up]something something Reed Richards aerospace engineer theory hahaha

Have they talked about how the Eternals are going to deal with the "if you've been here for 5000 years why'd y'all sit around while Thanos was fucking shit up" question?

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Aleistar He/him/his from The Rabbit Hole Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
He/him/his
May 3rd 2021 at 7:30:18 PM

I don't know much about the Eternals, but I do know Thanos is apparently their distant relative or something. I wonder if that's going to come up at all?

May 3rd 2021 at 8:06:42 PM

I think changing the title of the Captain Marvel squeal to The Marvels is an odd choice, also they could’ve included the Star of Hala (Carol symbol) on the new logo.

Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
May 3rd 2021 at 8:29:20 PM

It seems to signal that the movie is going to be an ensemble film shared by the three supers, not merely "Carol Danvers And Her Amazing Friends".

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
slimcoder King Shark is a Shark
King Shark is a Shark
May 3rd 2021 at 8:41:11 PM

I feel like this was done out of the complaints about Carol not being the most compelling protagonist.

"It's been an honor to fight by your side."
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
May 3rd 2021 at 8:43:39 PM

LOL I highly doubt that, especially since the last thing that would placate all the angry fanboys who are mad at Carol for "not smiling enough" would be two women of color as protagonists. They'll just invent new reasons to be mad and insist a billion dollars is a failure.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 3rd 2021 at 8:44:41 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
May 3rd 2021 at 8:44:24 PM

I'd imagine it has to do with Kamala.

Kamala is heavily anticipated, and they had to have known for years - even before development started, just in planning - that they were probably going to have the sequel be at least in part a Kamala film. So with Monica already set up (as a child in the 90's, at that point) and Kamala expected, they probably just decided to dive in and make it an ensemble movie.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2021 at 8:44:42 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
May 3rd 2021 at 8:45:35 PM

I don't even think Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is going to involve the actual multiverse. We know the main villain is Nightmare from the Dream Dimension, so I think it's just going to cover the other dimensions within the MCU universe, not go into any parallel universes.

That's my thought as well. It's a Doctor Strange film, so it's likely he will be dealing with threats of from mystical and/or eldritch horror dimensions.

The film is called Multiverse of Madness too.

Already gender-flipped several characters to match the movie actors under the reasoning of “Gods can shape-shift”.

More like they get a new body whenever they're Resurrected.

I'm looking forward to the film.

[up]×3

It's probably just to show it's an ensemble.

Edited by Cortez on May 3rd 2021 at 11:56:19 AM

"They truly were a Aqua Teen Hunger Force"
slimcoder King Shark is a Shark
King Shark is a Shark
May 3rd 2021 at 8:48:34 PM

To be clear I'm not saying thats the reason why, just a random thought out the noggin.

[up] Okay so it was the reincarnation, new body deal.

Edited by slimcoder on May 3rd 2021 at 8:49:19 AM

"It's been an honor to fight by your side."
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
May 3rd 2021 at 9:17:44 PM

The Earth respawns them when they die.

Fun fact: the planet Earth has seen Gremlins

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
May 3rd 2021 at 10:24:52 PM

It's either "The Marvels" or Captain Marvel 2: Captain Marvel and the previous comic Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel, a Marvel film, made by Marvel Entertainment

Edited by copperglass on May 3rd 2021 at 10:25:01 AM


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