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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127201: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:02:48 PM

I guess is either a Thunderbolts crossover or Young Avengers.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127202: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:24:14 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] I mean Iron Man is an alive character who actually did stuff in the plot while Ben is the motivation. And thats without stating that Iron Man is the most popular character in the MCU franchise so obviously emphasizing a relationship between him and..... literally anyone would automatically become popular.

Ben is the equivalent of the Wayne parents. People know of them because of how integral they are to the characters backstory/

I mean shit Ben appeared in the original Raimi trilogy, the Amazing duology, plus he was off course mentioned in Spider-Verse.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 8:24:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#127203: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:28:47 PM

I also think Thunderbolts and/or Dark Avengers are likely. There's also the possibility that the next big hero team is the Young Avengers. Depending on how Captain Marvel 2 and Secret Invasion play out I could also see Kree-Skrull War.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127204: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:37:46 PM

[up][up] I still remember watching Joker (2019) with my dad and the two of us were left howling at the end when the movie actually squeezes in Joe Chill killing the Waynes. Legit crying. Like "WE DID THIS ALREADY. THE GUN THE PEARL NECKLACE ALL OF IT. STOP IT."

So yeah, I've honestly been pretty fine with the having the Uncle Ben stuff being implied as something MCU Spidey's already gone through, especially since ASM struggled so hard with trying to redo the origin and flubbing it. I also tend to think the whole "Iron Man Jr." stuff gets overblown, like with how the MCU is written Tony and Peter having a mentor/student relationship just makes sense and both movies really do push Peter learning to be his own man in different ways.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127205: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:42:17 PM

I'm meh about the idea that not doing Uncle Ben allowed them to do a different plot, given that it at first the intense degree to which they separated themselves from it resulted in Peter being kind of In Name Only in his first solo appearance, and then when they did try to rerail Peter back what what they ended up doing was more or less the Uncle Ben plot anyway, with Ben Parker erased and Tony Stark penned in. The whole thing was just very awkward.

Also, the fact that "we're tired of seeing the same plot beats again, so Uncle Ben can never be referenced in a Spider-Man movie" is an overreaction - especially in a world where Enter The Spider-Verse exists, and can have a Peter who only ever mentions Ben Parker but still embodies the concept of the plotline.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 8:44:32 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#127206: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:44:14 PM

Fairly indifferent to Iron Boy because while I enjoy Tony enough, we also have a lot of that sort of thing running about the MCU. It's refreshing to do something different with Peter, sure, but that different isn't especially to my taste.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127207: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:45:34 PM

I also think Thunderbolts and/or Dark Avengers are likely.

I wonder if it'd be Thunderbolts in name, but Dark Avengers in practice.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#127208: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:47:36 PM

Skipping the origin story to go to the fun stuff can work, All-Star superman did that perfectly, but I'm not sure how much the uncle ben stuff really helped out the movie.

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#127209: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:51:49 PM

[up]x2 In all honesty if they use the name Thunderbolts it'd probably be for the MCU's version of the Suicide Squad and not strictly the Busiek/Bagley version.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127210: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:52:06 PM

At the end of the day it is supposed to be a Spider-Man movie.

Its like I don't know Green Lantern getting another movie but it has Kyle Raynor constantly answering to Batman.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#127211: Apr 24th 2021 at 8:55:42 PM

I just don't like it as an angel for the character. I get it, and I think it worked well enough for Civil War-Endgame, but hopefully they drop it for No Way Home.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:58:23 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127212: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:03:19 PM

inb4 Tony Stark comes back from the dead for 24 hours to save Spidey from the Sinister Six.

Kind of separate from the conversation about whether they should have, but I do think part of the reason Iron Lad Peter was so popular is because "adoptable sons / innocent cinnamon rolls" are in right now as a character type. I mean, seriously in. It's like crack to fandoms these days.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 9:08:44 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127213: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:52:31 PM

In all honesty if they use the name Thunderbolts it'd probably be for the MCU's version of the Suicide Squad and not strictly the Busiek/Bagley version.

I don't see it being like suicide squad if all the recruits are doing it of their own free will.

Though again, they could go with something more like Dark Avengers.

Edited by Cortez on Apr 24th 2021 at 12:58:42 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#127214: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:58:40 PM

The Thunderbolts are only similar in that they are ensemble Villain Protagonist movies. The Suicide Squad is about supervillains forced to do super black-ops stuff for their freedom on pain of headsplosion. The Thunderbolts would be about a bunch of villains pretending to be heroes as part of an evil plan, but then a few of them decide to actually be heroes.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127215: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:59:21 PM

Chances are however they choose to do Thunderbolts it will most likely be in a way that won’t make it obvious of Suicide Squad.

So probably no Cagebolts.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 9:59:37 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127216: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:26:01 PM

Cagebolts isn't really like Suicide Squad either, since they were trying to reform the villains.

Except for Crossbones of course.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#127217: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:26:47 PM

There's always the go-to, back pocket idea for a teamup movie: Secret Wars. Transport a bunch of MCU heroes and villains to another planet, and make them fight each other.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127218: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:38:09 PM

Now that I think about, the Dark Avengers route where the government creates owned versions of existing Avengers would be an interesting idea.

Especially if they recreate Citizen V as their new owned replacement for the Captain America identity after true whole disaster surrounding Walker.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:44:27 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127219: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:45:55 PM

Cross posting from the Falcon / Winter Soldier thread, since I totally nerded out on this one.

Okay, though, if I were genuinely putting together a MCU Thunderbolts team, there's two ways I think it might be done:

If they're doing the classic "a band of supervillains who pretend to be heroes under assumed identities, then most choose to turn good" plot:

  • Zemo, role up in the air but probably Big Bad.
  • Abomination, evil muscle.
  • Ghost, as the wiser and already-more-heroic-than-the-others member who supports becoming heroes. Probably dies, tbh.
  • Songbird, as a newcomer/focus character. She is the focus character/protag (depending on if the team are the villains of another character's movie, or stars of their own), starts the movie as an unrepentant villain but realizes Good Feels Good.
  • Second Newcomer, someone like Fixer: One who commits to Team Evil. Basically a Number Two to the Big Bad who is human and isn't a brute like Abomination. Possibly seems like friends with Songbird at first.
  • Third Newcomer, someone like Atlas or Jolt: One who chooses to side with Songbird, but survives.

Zemo's role is up in the air, as thought I could definitely see him as like a team mastermind type, after F&WS I could also see him betraying the whole team in favor of his own goals at some point.

However, if they're doing a merger between the original idea and the "non-Avengers team of anti-heroes under an ultimately heroic authority - be it government or otherwise (if govt, possibly connected to Thunderbolt Ross)" idea, then...

  • Zemo: His role would be a lot clearer in this scenario. Looks like he's on board with the government's (or someone else in charge, if the Contessa does turn out to be involved) team idea, but is actually masterminding a mutiny.
  • Songbird: Down with Zemo's mutiny at first, changes her mind and becomes a hero.
  • US Agent (spoiler character from F&WS): Just happy to be there. Has no idea about the mutiny.
  • Abomination: Same role as before.
  • Newcomer, again pushing Fixer: same role - a loyal #2 to Zemo's mutiny.
  • Hawkeye (surprise!): Just as an example. A legitimate and audience-known hero who suspects something is up and is undercover to keep an eye on the team. Maybe wears a mask / false identity the whole time, until The Reveal.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127220: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:03:23 PM

Hawkeye (surprise!)

They could have it be Bullseye in disguise.

Edited by Cortez on Apr 24th 2021 at 2:10:11 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127221: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:04:39 PM

The idea behind that role is to have there be an additional hero on the team, one connected with the other heroes - gives the plot a bit more intrigue. If we wanted to slot Bullseye, I'd replace the role I have for Fixer with him (that is, The Dragon) rather than the "Hawkeye" one.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 11:04:54 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#127222: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:20:41 PM

Hawkeye in disguise as Bullseye.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127223: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:41:00 PM

Hawkeye in disguise as Bullseye in disguise as Hawkeye?

"Hold on, it's really stuffy under all these masks."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 11:41:20 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#127224: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:42:58 PM

And it's Kate Bishop Hawkeye, not Clint.

In the end everyone just goes "...Have we met?"

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127225: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:43:46 PM

Whose revealed to actually be his brother Barney as all apart of a long con. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 11:44:10 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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