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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
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I mean Iron Man is an alive character who actually did stuff in the plot while Ben is the motivation. And thats without stating that Iron Man is the most popular character in the MCU franchise so obviously emphasizing a relationship between him and..... literally anyone would automatically become popular.
Ben is the equivalent of the Wayne parents. People know of them because of how integral they are to the characters backstory/
I mean shit Ben appeared in the original Raimi trilogy, the Amazing duology, plus he was off course mentioned in Spider-Verse.
Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 8:24:45 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
I still remember watching Joker (2019) with my dad and the two of us were left howling at the end when the movie actually squeezes in Joe Chill killing the Waynes. Legit crying. Like "WE DID THIS ALREADY. THE GUN THE PEARL NECKLACE ALL OF IT. STOP IT."
So yeah, I've honestly been pretty fine with the having the Uncle Ben stuff being implied as something MCU Spidey's already gone through, especially since ASM struggled so hard with trying to redo the origin and flubbing it. I also tend to think the whole "Iron Man Jr." stuff gets overblown, like with how the MCU is written Tony and Peter having a mentor/student relationship just makes sense and both movies really do push Peter learning to be his own man in different ways.
I'm meh about the idea that not doing Uncle Ben allowed them to do a different plot, given that it at first the intense degree to which they separated themselves from it resulted in Peter being kind of In Name Only in his first solo appearance, and then when they did try to rerail Peter back what what they ended up doing was more or less the Uncle Ben plot anyway, with Ben Parker erased and Tony Stark penned in. The whole thing was just very awkward.
Also, the fact that "we're tired of seeing the same plot beats again, so Uncle Ben can never be referenced in a Spider-Man movie" is an overreaction - especially in a world where Enter The Spider-Verse exists, and can have a Peter who only ever mentions Ben Parker but still embodies the concept of the plotline.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 8:44:32 AM
I just don't like it as an angel for the character. I get it, and I think it worked well enough for Civil War-Endgame, but hopefully they drop it for No Way Home.
Edited by Bullman on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:58:23 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadinb4 Tony Stark comes back from the dead for 24 hours to save Spidey from the Sinister Six.
Kind of separate from the conversation about whether they should have, but I do think part of the reason Iron Lad Peter was so popular is because "adoptable sons / innocent cinnamon rolls" are in right now as a character type. I mean, seriously in. It's like crack to fandoms these days.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 9:08:44 AM
I don't see it being like suicide squad if all the recruits are doing it of their own free will.
Though again, they could go with something more like Dark Avengers.
Edited by Cortez on Apr 24th 2021 at 12:58:42 PM
The Thunderbolts are only similar in that they are ensemble Villain Protagonist movies. The Suicide Squad is about supervillains forced to do super black-ops stuff for their freedom on pain of headsplosion. The Thunderbolts would be about a bunch of villains pretending to be heroes as part of an evil plan, but then a few of them decide to actually be heroes.
Wake me up at your own risk.Now that I think about, the Dark Avengers route where the government creates owned versions of existing Avengers would be an interesting idea.
Especially if they recreate Citizen V as their new owned replacement for the Captain America identity after true whole disaster surrounding Walker.
Edited by slimcoder on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:44:27 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Cross posting from the Falcon / Winter Soldier thread, since I totally nerded out on this one.
Okay, though, if I were genuinely putting together a MCU Thunderbolts team, there's two ways I think it might be done:
If they're doing the classic "a band of supervillains who pretend to be heroes under assumed identities, then most choose to turn good" plot:
- Zemo, role up in the air but probably Big Bad.
- Abomination, evil muscle.
- Ghost, as the wiser and already-more-heroic-than-the-others member who supports becoming heroes. Probably dies, tbh.
- Songbird, as a newcomer/focus character. She is the focus character/protag (depending on if the team are the villains of another character's movie, or stars of their own), starts the movie as an unrepentant villain but realizes Good Feels Good.
- Second Newcomer, someone like Fixer: One who commits to Team Evil. Basically a Number Two to the Big Bad who is human and isn't a brute like Abomination. Possibly seems like friends with Songbird at first.
- Third Newcomer, someone like Atlas or Jolt: One who chooses to side with Songbird, but survives.
Zemo's role is up in the air, as thought I could definitely see him as like a team mastermind type, after F&WS I could also see him betraying the whole team in favor of his own goals at some point.
However, if they're doing a merger between the original idea and the "non-Avengers team of anti-heroes under an ultimately heroic authority - be it government or otherwise (if govt, possibly connected to Thunderbolt Ross)" idea, then...
- Zemo: His role would be a lot clearer in this scenario. Looks like he's on board with the government's (or someone else in charge, if the Contessa does turn out to be involved) team idea, but is actually masterminding a mutiny.
- Songbird: Down with Zemo's mutiny at first, changes her mind and becomes a hero.
- US Agent (spoiler character from F&WS): Just happy to be there. Has no idea about the mutiny.
- Abomination: Same role as before.
- Newcomer, again pushing Fixer: same role - a loyal #2 to Zemo's mutiny.
- Hawkeye (surprise!): Just as an example. A legitimate and audience-known hero who suspects something is up and is undercover to keep an eye on the team. Maybe wears a mask / false identity the whole time, until The Reveal.
The idea behind that role is to have there be an additional hero on the team, one connected with the other heroes - gives the plot a bit more intrigue. If we wanted to slot Bullseye, I'd replace the role I have for Fixer with him (that is, The Dragon) rather than the "Hawkeye" one.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 11:04:54 AM
And it's Kate Bishop Hawkeye, not Clint.
In the end everyone just goes "...Have we met?"
"All you Fascists bound to lose."

I guess is either a Thunderbolts crossover or Young Avengers.