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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127151: Apr 23rd 2021 at 11:13:55 PM

They're also likely hesitant because of how big a deal the Black Panther was and how iconic Boseman's portrayal became practically overnight. I wouldn't relish another actor who has to deal with being The Other Darrin there, so I can see why the idea of going the legacy route instead is appealing.

Yeah, The replacement would constantly be compared to Boseman.

Edited by Cortez on Apr 23rd 2021 at 2:14:53 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127152: Apr 23rd 2021 at 11:26:39 PM

It'd be like George Lazenby and Sean Connery all over again. Except even more so since Boseman died.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127153: Apr 23rd 2021 at 11:27:33 PM

It’s crazy to think of a day if we get live-action movies not of the MCU.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#127154: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:13:22 AM

No different to times we had those god awful Hulk movies,or Ghost Rider

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#127155: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:48:52 AM

Yeah. The Boseman siutation is horrifically complicated.

Marvel is gonna get a verbal reaming no matter what choice they make. All they can do is take their time, and measure the pros and cons.

I understand why he did it (he genuinely thought he'd beat it), but I think Boseman should have informed all the Marvel higher-ups of his condition, so they could have planned ahead. They needed to be aware of the possibility so they could prepare.

Again, I don't blame him, as it was a private thing, and he must have been doing well in his treatment for him to not say anything at the time. If he'd thought for a moment things were going to turn bad early on, I expect he'd have told everyone who needed to know.

It's all hindsight now.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127156: Apr 24th 2021 at 9:54:31 AM

That logic works just as hard, if not harder, in the opposite direction: if they replace Boseman, it could reinforce the idea that black actors are replaceable.

Actors *are* replaceable, though. It’s the nature of the job. To pretend that that’s an insult is to undercut what actors do in the first place.

It’s why we can have a billion different people playing Batman, or why they didn’t stop making Superman movies after Christopher Reeves.

Or, to give a black example, why here are now three (well, two and a half) distinct people who have played John Shaft, one of the more well known and iconic black film characters. As long as the later films homage the original actors and their impact (and the movies are good), you’ll ultimately find that people respond positively to the character being allowed to persist and continue to have life.

The things that people create, that inspire audiences and exist without them, tend to be more impactful and less sensitive to replacement than the people themselves.

But with Black Panther, we’re running into the optics that white heroes can continue to be retold and played by new faces, but black people get one shot at a hero and that’s it.

Keep in mind, also, that this is the second time in a row that we’ve had a popular and influential black hero from Marvel be taken away because of behind the scenes Hollywood drama: it all adds up.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:13:18 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#127157: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:18:10 AM

I've been thinking, in light of the Boseman situation, if say Downey Jr died right after the first Avengers come out, would people have supported a recast or wanted The Character Died with Him? I think most people would have wanted a recast.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127158: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:37:06 AM

I have given the Boseman situation a lot of thought, and my ultimate conclusion is that T'Challa needs to be recast, for the sake of the character, his potential, what he represents, and who he is meant to inspire. I fully understand why people would find that ghoulish, and the sentiment to not recast is in the right place, but I think it is ultimately mistaken and that a recast can be fully done while still being respectful to Boseman's clearly iconic role.

I have a literal giant laundry list of points in support of why, but to attempt to only highlight some for brevity:

  • Realize that by not recasting T'Challa you write him out of everything: future stories, flashbacks, audiovisual recordings, visits in the astral plane, etc. Marvel can always call back RDJ, Evans, and ScarJo to reprise their now-dead characters, but unless people get really comfortable with deep-faking (like what Fast 7 did for Paul Walker) or there's a whole bunch of archival footage around T'Challa is Deader than Dead.
  • All of the other Wakandan characters have character weaknesses to them that ultimately stem from all of them serving vital roles in T'Challa's character journey. Upgrading any of them to Black Panther (even Shuri) requires a significant amount of recharacterization to get them to fit the role. "Alternate Universe Good Guy Killmonger" in particular is straight-up insulting to multiple parts of the first movie, and I honestly don't understand why it's so popular or why people are willing to go for that and not just recasting MBJ as T'Challa.
  • It's kinda really messed up how several other major heroes have had multiple actors over the decades and yet MCU T'Challa is apparently so iconic that to even think of recasting is blasphemous. WB currently has 3 live-action Batmen and 2 live-action Jokers and if No Way Home rumors come to pass we're getting 3 live-action Peter Parkers in the same movie.
  • It's also messed up how the MCU T'Challa has died twice over the course of his journey and that writing him out effectively kills him off a third time.
  • T'Challa has a lot of good history and relationships from the comics that would be great to see in live-action, and replacing him heavily changes those relationships if not removes them entirely. One particular one is his relationship with Namor: there's been this really good pissing contest over the years between the two kings, and that would have to change rather significantly if anyone else is in T'Challa's shoes.note 
  • I can't claim to know Boseman personally at all but based on what I've seen of what he's made of his career and what he does outside of it I can't fathom him being so precious as to not want the role to continue without him. In fact his career was largely defined by him wanting to play major roles to inspire future generations and I can't help but think the last thing he would want is for people to take away the biggest of those roles for kids for the sake of his own honor.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127159: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:37:29 AM

Keep in mind, also, that this is the second time in a row that we’ve had a popular and influential black hero from Marvel be taken away because of behind the scenes Hollywood drama: it all adds up.

Wait, what was the first one?

Edited by windleopard on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:38:07 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127160: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:42:30 AM

[up]I think they mean Rhodey being recast because Ike Perlmutter was so racist he thought Terrance Howard and Don Cheadle looked exactly the same.

Edited by lbssb on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:42:50 AM

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127161: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:53:01 AM

1) We didn't lose Rhodey.

2) Howard was recast due to a payment dispute.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127162: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:55:09 AM

Tbh I prefer Cheadle as an actor anyway. Man oozes charisma

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127163: Apr 24th 2021 at 10:57:30 AM

[up]Me too. I honestly don't really remember much about Howard's Rhodey.

[up][up]Yeah, I realize that, but it was the closest thing I could think of to what they said. I'm not entirely sure what they mean.

Edited by lbssb on Apr 24th 2021 at 10:57:43 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#127164: Apr 24th 2021 at 11:00:14 AM

Black Bolt raises his hand

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127165: Apr 24th 2021 at 12:14:12 PM

Wait, what was the first one?

Luke Cage.

It’s easy to forget now how much of an impact that show had when it released, since the Netflix years are long behind us.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2021 at 12:15:43 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#127166: Apr 24th 2021 at 1:02:19 PM

Man, I had a dream last night where I was watching some vaguely-defined Marvel film, and the post-credits scene was the hero being told to meet up with some "interesting people" in a specific building and when they went there, it was Charlie Cox's Daredevil, Krysten Ritter's JJ, Mike Colter's Luke Cage, and Finn Jones's Iron Fist, all re-entering the MCU.

I wish that were real.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127167: Apr 24th 2021 at 2:24:15 PM

[up][up] On that note, we can easily get a Heroes for Hire TV show now.

A show about Luke and Danny getting into wacky misadventures would be fun.

The boys are back in town.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#127168: Apr 24th 2021 at 4:29:04 PM

Honest question: what's the last big Hollywood film series that recast the lead character between movies?

I'm not talking remakes or reboots, but where it's meant to be the same version of the character in the same continuity, just played by a different actor.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127169: Apr 24th 2021 at 4:47:25 PM

The biggest example I can think of is the 90s Batman, who was recast twice and was still meant to be the same version of the character. There's also James Bond, which up until Daniel Craig was all in the same continuity. You could also count Brandon Routh in Superman Returns, since he's supposed to be the same version of the character played by Christopher Reeve.

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FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#127170: Apr 24th 2021 at 5:02:00 PM

The original Spider-Man trilogy supposedly almost recast Tobey Maguire to Jake Gyllenhaal for Spider-Man 2, though they obviously didn't go through with it.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#127171: Apr 24th 2021 at 5:03:46 PM

That would've been an odd choice.

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chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#127172: Apr 24th 2021 at 5:11:26 PM

Mysterio strikes again!

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127174: Apr 24th 2021 at 5:38:37 PM

Why was Maguire almost recast?


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