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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127101: Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:20:13 AM

Also like I said it has precedent in older comics

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127102: Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:25:31 AM

It does also add up to Priest’s run.

He hated being king because of how much it tears his soul and would enjoy doing anything else like being a superhero.

It cements the tragedy of the character. He desperately does not want to be king but he does so anyway because of how much the responsibilities have been built into him since he was born and as much as he may not like it, he is good at it.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:26:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127103: Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:41:21 AM

It doesn't help that he knows absolute monarchy is a flawed system that is increasingly out of place in the world.

Edited by M84 on Apr 23rd 2021 at 9:41:34 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#127104: Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:45:43 AM

There are subtle moments like that even in the early issues of Jungle Action. There's an issue where he beats up the Klan where he's staying with a family and is having a relatively simple meal, but he goes "No, this is great! I'd put this against fancy banquets any day." He's uninterested in power but takes it on so others can't abuse it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127105: Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:47:10 AM

It’s why he’s so protective of the position, because he fears what could happen if anyone else became king knowing how most of Wakanda acts.

Fears confirmed true when Shuri took over for a time and became an ultra-nationalist with a Wakanda-first mindset who responds to everything with naked threats and aggression.

Huh T’Challa preferring to be physicist by itself isn’t a bad idea but since it showed up in the Coates run which I heard is kind of a deconstruction run where all the heroes strengths are turned against them and they just get constantly shit on, I guess it was considered by some to just be another take-down on T’Challa.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 23rd 2021 at 6:48:12 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#127106: Apr 23rd 2021 at 12:15:40 PM

T'Challa really has a lot of issues in the hands of certain writers.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127107: Apr 23rd 2021 at 12:59:06 PM

Speaking of T'Challa:

Does anyone follow The Real Daytime? Because they brought up a petition to recast him.

What do we think? They bring up the valid points about how T'Challa's story was just starting, having to bring back Killmonger from the dead and how it's too soon to have Shuri in the mantle.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:00:16 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#127108: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:03:40 PM

[up]I remember when recasting was bought up in this thread that people were for it, but the actual cast and crew consider Bosewick irreplaceable and well..you can’t force that on people.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127109: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:04:48 PM

I've maintained that not-recasting and instead letting T'Challa's character die offscreen is ultimately more insulting to Boseman's memory and what he was endeavoring to accomplish by playing T'Challa in the first place than recasting is, so I'm all for it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:04:59 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127110: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:08:39 PM

They brought up the possibility of casting an unknown new actor in the role, which perhaps might bring less baggage than if another celebrity were cast and immediately their personas were compared.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127111: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:09:51 PM

[up][up][up]This is where I'm at as well (with the caveat that recasting debates right after his death felt a little too kneejerk fanboy). I'm still not sure if I want a recast, I understand why people want one, but I also don't think we should be demanding it from the cast and crew if they don't want to.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 23rd 2021 at 3:10:00 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127112: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:11:18 PM

[up][up][up] At first I wasn't really sure myself, but that was more because I didn't want to be seen as some insensitive jerk. But at the end of the day, killing T'Challa just as he was starting to make himself known just sounds wrong. He was Thanos'd in IW, came back in Endgame, only to die to something else? It's hard to describe the feeling, but it's a negative feeling to be sure.

Ideally, I'd have a recast, but with the understanding that it's to honor what Boseman started. Like a passing of the torch.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:15:55 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#127113: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:16:18 PM

I'm on the "let the people who worked with Chadwick decide", but personally I much more favour the idea of passing on the Black Panther mantle to another character rather than recasting T'challa. A part of me feels like just recasting T'challa and keeping business as usual is literally showing Chadwick as replacable. Just accepting Chadwick's death as that of the character adds reflects internally the sense of irreplaceable loss that exists externally.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127114: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:21:31 PM

I understand the whole "the actor is irreplaceable" from a Hollywood point of view, in that it theoretically respects the actor's career, but from a racial point of view doing discard and draw whenever a black character - especially one that was starting to have a lot of influence and relatability towards the black audience - faces behind the scenes issues, just reinforces the idea that the images black people create are replaceable.

As a result, it ultimately comes off as a Hollywood political move than an actually progressive one. And the reason I believe it ultimately doesn't respect Boseman's career all that much is because he dedicated his life to ensuring that black figures were adequately represented in film. He wouldn't want a figure or character he played to be put on the cutting room floor just because he's not physically there to play them.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:28:47 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127115: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:25:47 PM

I’d go the Paul Walker route and say that he retired from superhero work for other pursuits like volunteering at Wakandan outreach centers or being a king.

The legend has returned.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127116: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:26:42 PM

[up][up] That makes almost too much sense.

[up] Oh yeah, they said a while ago that Walker's character from Fast & Furious was still around, didn't they?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:27:46 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127117: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:28:09 PM

While I respected Marvel's decision to not recast, I personally feel it was wrong to cut the character down so early in his story, especially given how much he now means to so many people.

I actually recall someone pointing out somewhere how if Dumbledore was allowed to continue to exist as a character despite his first actor's death, then shouldn't T'Challa be afforded the same opportunity?

I personally don't see a recast as replacing Chadwick Boseman, but more as a way to help continue his legacy in allowing T'Challa to flourish and inspire people further.

Otherwise, I'd feel like going the Batwoman route and replacing the main character with an OC rather than recast would be a mistake, as would continuing the Black Panther series without, you know, an actual Black Panther in it.

Edited by lbssb on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:31:09 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127118: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:30:07 PM

The character T’Challa had a lot of history. You can’t just replace him with another character like that.

It’s kinda like what the current Batman comics are doing with new Batman Jace Fox, where it’s kinda hard to accept now because he’s too much of a newbie character to replace Bruce.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127119: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:31:08 PM

While I respected Marvel's decision to not recast, I personally feel it was wrong to cut the character down so early in his story, especially given how much he now means to so many people. I personally don't see a recast as replacing Chadwick Boseman, but more as a way to help continue his legacy in allowing T'Challa to flourish and inspire people further.

This. Just this.

Otherwise, I'd feel like going the Batwoman route and replacing the main character with an OC rather than recast would be a mistake, as would continuing the Black Panther series without, you know, an actual Black Panther in it.

And even then, Batwoman ended up recasting Kate Kane during the second season anyway.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 29th 2021 at 2:27:30 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#127120: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:32:14 PM

[up]Wait, they did? I didn't know that. Holy shit, then Ryan Wilder was even more pointless than we thought!

Edited by lbssb on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:33:26 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#127121: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:33:18 PM

From a purely storytelling point of view, I'd be interested in seeing Shuri take up the mantle and the crown, as it would offer some very good opportunities of character development and also give us another female lead in the MCU (which is sorely lacking in that department). Otherwise, being white, I don't think I can or even should really comment on this issue as it reaches far beyond storybuilding concerns.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127122: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:34:47 PM

I feel that ultimately marvel is going to try to thread the needle by recasting after some time has passed

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#127123: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:35:03 PM

Captain America 4 confirmed. Malcolm Spellman co-writing with Dalan Musson.

Edited by Mario1995 on Apr 23rd 2021 at 4:36:02 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127124: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:38:52 PM

Wait, they did? I didn't know that. Holy shit, then Ryan Wilder was even more pointless than we thought!

Yup. The show got Wallis Day as Kate in season 2, episode 8 or 9.

[up] After accidentally seeing some pics from TF&TWS' last episode, I'll just respond with a grin.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:42:11 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127125: Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:40:58 PM

So basically all the problems Batwoman went through, all the major rewrites and story changes they had to go through to encompass a brand new protagonist in the middle of the season was completely unnecessary.

Ridiculous.

[up][up] Though nice, Sam getting his movie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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