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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#127026: Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:36:10 AM

It's almost like there's a reason us and/or our families left the mainland in the first place...

Edited by M84 on Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:36:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127027: Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:40:44 AM

I do think the reaction of the Chinese audience should at least be considered given this movie is going to have some impact, however small, on how people view Chinese culture and people. Not all criticisms will be valid, of course, but I don't think they should all be dismissed.

Edited by windleopard on Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:41:18 AM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127028: Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:51:38 AM

The Farewell didn’t do well in China either, so I don’t expect mainlanders to really gel with the immigrant storylines.

[up]That’s how I feel about it as well. Remember that Mulan was probably one of the first big Asian cartoon films and a lot of Americans’ first exposure to Chinese culture but it got a mixed reaction from China because said culture as depicted was very Americanized.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 22nd 2021 at 10:58:47 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#127029: Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:58:05 AM

@Windleopard- Which criticisms do you think are valid?

Personally, I could get the criticism of the indirect use of Fu Manchu / use of a Fu Manchu-inspired character. But I'm not sure how much that is even on the radar, because it doesn't seem to come up much as a criticism.

Mostly it seems like a combination of what is (charitably) a belief that it's inauthentic or (less charitably) that diaspora Chinese have no right to the culture. That coupled with thinking that Simu Liu and Awkwafina are too ugly to represent Chinese people.

[up] The animated Mulan is interesting because it's very much a diaspora Chinese work, down to calling her Fa Mulan, which along with the feminist analysis, was inspired by then-recent writing by Maxine Hong-Kingston. And although apparently they still hated it, the recent live action Mulan movie was a deliberate attempt to make a version for mainland China. Which interestingly included it being generally reactionary in message.

Edited by Hodor2 on Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:04:30 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127030: Apr 22nd 2021 at 10:25:37 AM

I know of one American film franchise set in China that they adore: Kung Fu Panda.

The legend has returned.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127031: Apr 22nd 2021 at 10:29:40 AM

The first draft for The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special is done.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#127032: Apr 22nd 2021 at 10:55:00 AM

[up][up] Helps that KFP had tons of research to properly depict Chinese culture and the landscape to enrich the good plot, good music, godly animation and overall narrative

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#127033: Apr 22nd 2021 at 10:57:41 AM

@Hodor I'm mostly speaking hypothetically in this regard but I do think it is possible there might be some things they can criticize that are a bit more understandable than just the actors' looks. I do think it is important to note this dislike seems to be coming from the Chinese people not the CCP. But we'll wait and see.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127034: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:32:38 AM

Russell Crowe revealed his role in Thor: Love and Thunder!

AND THEN ALONG CAME ZEUS!

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:37:32 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#127035: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:44:01 AM

So is Gorr the God-Butcher killing Greek gods?

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:44:13 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127036: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:46:08 AM

[up] I mean, I was immediately speculating whether this means Marvel's Hercules is around the corner, but...oh. Oh...

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#127037: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:46:14 AM

[up][up][up] Zounds!

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 22nd 2021 at 2:46:32 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#127038: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:48:45 AM

@Windleopard - For me it seems like a pretty comparable situation to how in Japan, no one had an issue with racelifting in the Ghost In the Shell movie (because Japanese people have plenty of/nearly exclusive representation in Japanese media).

So, it's a situation where the "mainland" and "diaspora" understandably have different focuses, including about representation. But also in both cases, it seems like the mainland just has "bad" / "reactionary" opinions, so I don't think it's super-helpful to view them as more deserving of deference, because they are the mainland and not the diaspora.

Regarding Russel Crowe - That's awesome. And yes. I assume that Gorr butchered the Greek pantheon and that Zeus is a survivor. Hopefully not the sole survivor, so we can get Hercules and others too. Kind of a funny/inspired choice, because Gorr is already Kratos but without Protagonist-Centered Morality.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#127039: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:54:09 AM

I literally just remembered that Russell Crowe was Jor-El.

Hell of a promotion: From the father of the Last Son of Krypton to the God of Thunder (and Rock & Roll) and father of Hercules.

Zounds...

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#127040: Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:54:44 AM

I'm not so sure they would explicitly cut off the possibility of Hercules ever appearing, given how much of a fan favorite he is and how heavily requested the character has been over the years.

Anywho, I hope they give Christian Bale's Gorr's outfit something of a update from the comics. The Spectre, he ain't.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 22nd 2021 at 11:55:04 AM

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#127041: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:01:22 PM

So, Gorr is likely killing the Olympians. I'm so gonna be Rooting for the Empire in this one.

Edited by djoki996 on Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:01:42 PM

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#127042: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:04:30 PM

This could have a Guardians tie in down the line Given in the current comics they just had to deal with the re-incarnated Olympian Gods running amok and Herc is currently a member of the Guardian's team

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#127043: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:05:26 PM

Yeah you're not killing Hercules, especially not for Zeus of all gods. That's literally like swapping out Thor for Odin. Hercules is an Avenger for God's sake!

Also I'm hoping this is more than just the Greek pantheon. The Marvel universe is technically a full-on Crossover Cosmology but outside of like the God Squad it's woefully underutilized.

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#127044: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:06:59 PM

Gorr going after the Greek gods and killing them off kinda sounds like the start of Avengers: No Road Home, though that's probably more a coincidence than anything.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#127045: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:13:50 PM

I’m excited that Hercules is most likely going to happen.

The legend has returned.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#127046: Apr 22nd 2021 at 12:15:09 PM

Hercules fighting the chaos king would make a boss movie.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#127047: Apr 22nd 2021 at 1:19:44 PM

Does that mean we'll get Amadeus Cho too? (the only comic where I've seen Hercules also had him).

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#127048: Apr 22nd 2021 at 1:35:49 PM

" Gorr is already Kratos but without Protagonist-Centered Morality"

Never read any of his stories, but from what I've read about him Gorr's self-centered morality game is like a gajillion times stronger than Kratos' ever was.

Edited by Eagal on Apr 22nd 2021 at 1:36:20 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#127049: Apr 22nd 2021 at 1:38:55 PM

Kratos eventually comes to realize how destructive his crusade was at the very end. Gorr though doesn't care, simply wanting to destroy all of creation for his rage.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#127050: Apr 22nd 2021 at 1:41:20 PM

I think I misunderstood the comment. I thought they were saying that he isn't self-centered, rather than the story doesn't ignore his self-centeredness like it originally did Kratos'. My bad.


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