Marvel Cinematic Universe

Yes, but did he reference it later (apart from having his arm in a sling)? I don't remember Tony having any issue with his arm after this movie.

He has his arm in a sling, but removes it by the time of the final battle so it couldn't have been too severe.

If we include pre-Avenger injuries there's Doctor Strange's fucked-up hands too.

And then there’s T’Challa almost if not actually dying from his first fight with Killmonger.

Wait, I thought the whole thing about Rhodey being injured was an attempt to justify him being kind of a dick in Infinity War and Endgame - with the argument as I understand it being that since he was injured and needed a prosthetic, he was entitled to an increase in snarky behavior.

Putting my doubt that the Russo bros. / writers had that specifically in mind while writing his character aside, if that's the case why would the injury specifically being during an Avengers mission or not matter?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 15th 2021 at 1:32:16 AM

My point about Rhodey was that he was the only Avenger receiving a lasting injury while working with the Avengers, and as such may have been annoyed at Thor letting himself go after suffering something less severe than that, hence the snarking. Just my little Fan Wank for trying to explain what was probably caused by the writers distributing the snarky comments between characters without paying too much attention to whether it was in character for them or not.

I distinguished the injuries received while fighting along the Avengers because I had forgotten at the time that other characters have received lasting injuries in the movies, but mostly during their origin stories (and Thor's eye actually happened while he was offworld, so unless somebody noticed his eyes were now of different colours it could have gone unnoticed). So from Rhodey's point of view he really was the only one receiving this injury since the Avengers formed.

Edited by C105 on Apr 15th 2021 at 10:38:01 AM

I kind of sounds like you think Rhodey ought to be written as implicitly resentful of his teammates.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 15th 2021 at 1:35:31 AM

The idea that Rhodey and everyone else would get more snarky over time actually makes a lot of sense, though.

That's generally how friendships work.

Well... he might? There is this big scuffle among team mates, and when the dust settles he's the only one who leaves with a crippling injury. So he could be bitter about the whole thing and this would translate as more snark. Again, more of a Fan Wank to explain his snarkier nature in Endgame than me wanting Rhodey to be written as bitter.

That, too. As people get more comfortable with each other they can become a bit nastier too, knowing it won't be misinterpreted.

Edited by C105 on Apr 15th 2021 at 10:41:30 AM

Something I've kicked around in my head is that it feels like Endgame wants to say something about how people react to tragedy, but it ultimately doesn't say anything (except perhaps that people react in different ways).

Nebula, Natasha, and Rocket outright become the best versions of themselves and (especially with Rocket) have positive developments that almost certainly would not have happened without the impetus of devastating tragedy.

Tony and Steve have less major changes, but similarly seem to become more well-adjusted and overcome some of their issues.

And then as a contrast, Thor becomes self-destructive and Hawkeye becomes a (possibly racist) Vigilante Man, although like Thor, he also has a lot of self-hatred.

Probably the most obvious conclusion one could make is that there is something worse about Clint than any of his teammates, but the movie doesn't want to go there.

Clint lost his whole family, though, and Thor lost his homeworld and half his people (including his best friend and his brother). Compared to that, the losses of the others seem less extreme (apart possibly from Rocket, who lost his adopted family too, but he was a loner to begin with).

Edited by C105 on Apr 15th 2021 at 10:52:58 AM

Thor not only lost his people, he lost them in multiple ways:

1) All the people who likely died during Hela's brief reign.

2) Them being attacked by Thanos and likely halved.

3) Then being halved again by the Snap.

And the last one happened because he decided it was more important to hurt Thanos than to kill him when he had the chance.

That would turn anyone into an utter wreck.

The Infinity War / Endgame duo has quite a few instances of stuff being played for laughs that probably shouldn't be, largely because those maintains a strict separation of what is laughable and what is not based on characters, not on context.

Thor in Infinity War was cool, not funny, so his emotional traumas give him a couple sad manly scenes. Thor in Endgame is funny, not cool, so until the scene with Frigga (and even then) his emotional traumas are treated as a joke.

You can see a good example of this in the reverse in Infinity War, where there's a joke scene playing all the screwed up stuff Starlord went through in Guardians 2 as pathetic compared to Thor - because in that movie, Starlord is the joke character and Thor is not. Even Starlord's meltdown at the end is treated more as him fucking up than him going through it, in comparison to the effectively identical situation at the end of Infinity War.

I love the Russos and their work, but that was something of a sticking point regarding the way they handled a larger cast: they wanted everyone to have something like an emotional arc, but they also wanted only some of those emotional arcs to have emotional weight. Separating humor from it, it's also arguable with Black Widow - for instance - where she gets the beginnings of a thing in Endgame regarding her only now having a family needing to keep the Avengers together, but that specific character beat is eventually discarded because the big emotional payoff for her isn't with her own emotions, but with her death causing catharsis in Hawkeye's.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 15th 2021 at 2:50:06 AM

Rocket lost everything that mattered to him. Flat out. He wasnt "a loner" because he wanted to be alone. His insecurities led him to believe that anyone he got close to would inevitably reject him. To the point that he was preemptively pushing away the people he cared about so they couldnt hurt him.

OK, "loner" may not have been the best word for describing Rocket. Let's say he is probably used to being separated from the people he cares about. That does not mean he won't hurt a lot from it, but he may know how to bottle it up.

It occurs to me as I write this is that maybe some of the reactions of the characters to Thor may be due to how they project their own coping mechanisms on him. If I remember correctly, Tony is rather nice to him, probably because his own coping mechanisms for facing stress or a crushing setback (in IM3 and Endgame) was not that far from Thor's (the only difference was that Tony had a loving wife and later a daughter to support him during the Blip). Conversely, Rocket would be the type to metaphorically slap himself in the face to force himself to "man up" (or raccoon up) and go on, which is why he does that to Thor during the Asgard part of the heist. And Rhodey is already pretty snarky, so maybe he uses dark humour to cope with setbacks, hence the snark toward "Fat Thor".

Though I'm not quite sure how my Fan Wank ties with Rocket and Thor's conversation in Infinity War, but at least that scene foreshadowed that Thor was one failure away from despair.

Edited by C105 on Apr 16th 2021 at 9:53:08 PM

So it turns out Molina in Spider-Man: No Way Home isn’t just Doc Ock, he’s the same Doc Ock from Spider-Man 2.

We’ll see if it’s true or if it turns out he’s just Doc Bohner.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 16th 2021 at 4:32:55 AM

It's worth noting that it's the article positing that it's multiverse or timeline stuff. But what it says directly about Ock from Molina & Watts is:

• Ock will have the same story as in Spider-Man 2, and the story will pick up from that version of the character's "death."
• Molina will be digitally aged down for the role.
• More tentacle stuff because Molina can't do the physical stuff he used to.

So we know that the MCU version of Ock will be identical to the Spider-Man 2 Ock. Whether it's literally the same Ock or - like we've been hearing about Electro not quite being the same - presumably the version from this universe but with the same backstory, <shrug>.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 16th 2021 at 4:54:04 AM

Think it will probably be Same backstory but different outcome.

The question is if he’s still a villain now. Has his redemption from the end of Spider-Man 2 stuck? Or did the tentacles take over his mind again?

2004: "I will not die a monster!"

2021: "LOL JK, let's kill Spider-Man, amirite?"

Not to be "that guy" but this movie sounds extremely overstuffed. It's like they're trying to cram in as much Spider-Man as humanly possible before there's another rights dispute.

I have bad memories of a third Spiderman movie in a series trying to cram in to many characters at once...

Edited by C105 on Apr 16th 2021 at 2:14:14 PM

I don't know Far From Home had two villains and it didn't feel overstuffed. Which at this point we only have two confirmed villains Doc Ock and Electro. Which can easily be Electro working for Ock.

I also think that this will just be a Doc Ock with as similar backstory.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 16th 2021 at 7:15:50 AM

Who was the other villain besides Mysterio? He was clearly the main villain, and there wasn't really another named Spidey villain aside from him. I don't really count the Elementals, since they're not real characters.

I meant to put Homecoming. Which had Vulture and Shocker. I just got the two confused for a minute.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 16th 2021 at 7:19:24 AM

Shocker was a henchman, so I wouldn't count it.