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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#126726: Apr 14th 2021 at 6:45:29 PM

The one Fat Thor joke that rubbed me the wrong way was Rhodey's cheese wiz line. Like come on, dude, he has something important to say, why do you have to knock him down like that?

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#126727: Apr 14th 2021 at 6:49:33 PM

Cause he’s a jerk.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126728: Apr 14th 2021 at 6:58:50 PM

He’s been adjacent to Tony Stark for too long and things semi mean cracks are just how people communicate

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#126729: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:00:27 PM

Semi-mean cracks have become the default means of communications in these movies, really. Sometimes makes me wonder whether I'm watching a Marvel film or Jim and Dwight sniping at each other on The Office (US).

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126730: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:02:03 PM

Everybody has been standing next to Tony for too long

Maybe now he’s dead their emotions can heal

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#126731: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:18:22 PM

Tony was a damaged man in so many ways.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#126732: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:30:00 PM

Tony was also a man that caused damage in so many ways.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#126733: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:34:26 PM

I remember reading how besides what made it into the movie, there were other scenes of meta humor scripted (maybe even filmed), I think from Rhoadie.

While I do think that the writers did a pretty job in terms of understanding what should actually be in the movie versus what they might find amusing themselves, I don't think they did quite a good job, and you can definitely tell that they were a little too amused by their own jokes. And that those jokes sometimes went in too mean spirited a direction.

Like even if some humor about "Fat Thor" was okay, or even if that plotline was okay (arguable in both cases), there needed to be some more moments of empathy/pathos that were missing.

I'd say that similarly, everyone is a little too mean to Scott.

Edited by Hodor2 on Apr 14th 2021 at 9:35:27 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126734: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:36:49 PM

That weirdly works for me because it makes Hulk being super nice to this guy he doesn't really know stand out more

Everyone got dressed for a 'fuck Scott Lang specifically' party and Hulk is here giving him tacos

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#126735: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:38:25 PM

It's especially annoying since the only reason the entire thing was possible is because of Scott.

They should all be bowing down to him for what he offered.

Hell, Tony only figured out how to make it work after Scott put the idea in his head. Had it not been for that, he might not have ever even thought of it.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#126736: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:40:30 PM

Ant-Man never gets respect regardless of the continuity or whoever is taking the identity.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126737: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:42:54 PM

It's mostly Rhodey, Nebula, and Rocket who are dicks to him, right?

Nebula and Rocket are just kinda dicks. And Rhodey miiiiight be holding a grudge about civil war

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#126738: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:43:39 PM

It's so weird because Scott is probably one of the nicest people on the planet and no one likes him. I get he's relatively new on the scene, but that's no excuse for people to treat him as the punchline to whatever quip they're in the process of delivering.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#126739: Apr 14th 2021 at 8:48:07 PM

The humor in Endgame did often feel a bit too mean-spirited at times, I agree.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#126740: Apr 14th 2021 at 10:20:16 PM

Looking back, it's kind of interesting how the Russos - in particular - tended to write Rhodey as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, a practical joker, and the kind of person who would throw barbs at people for no reason. He does it quite a bit in Infinity War and Endgame, and maybe even once or twice in Infinity War.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 14th 2021 at 10:20:32 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#126741: Apr 14th 2021 at 10:33:28 PM

I think the characters not being too empathetic towards Thor makes sense.

Bear in mind, everyone experienced devastating, world-shattering losses during the Snap. And odds are, most folks spent time trying to cope with the trauma by indulging their vice of choice. But while everyone else has moved on at least somewhat, Thor has remained firmly planted in the "drown my sorrows with food and video games" phase for five solid years.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#126742: Apr 14th 2021 at 10:57:59 PM

If they see that he can’t move on, it’s a good reason for them to try to get him professional help or just replace him with someone else on the mission, not force him to go and be mean-spirited to him all the while.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#126743: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:09:56 PM

And his wasn't even the most unhealthy coping mechanism. He didn't become a vigilante mass murderer like Hawkeye.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#126744: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:12:42 PM

Thor's coping mechanism was "just" very self-destructive, while Clint's coping mechanism was self-destructive and outwardly destructive.

I guess Thor's case just seems worse because he had farther to fall. Thor was a literal god king reduced to a drunken shut-in letting himself go. It's a somewhat less fantastic case of a Broken Angel.

Edited by M84 on Apr 15th 2021 at 2:14:57 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#126745: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:23:39 PM

Though, now that I think about it, going self-destructive and outwardly destructive is the default Asgardian response to trauma. Loki, Odin, Valkyrie... Thor's the outlier for not having an outwardly (overly) destructive aspect to his depressive behavior.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#126746: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:26:48 PM

The most outward harm his depression does is the financial hit his community takes paying for his vast quantities of booze, junk food, and videogames.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#126747: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:31:31 PM

There's also the threats over video games, which in the real world have a psychologic toll on the recipients. But it's a very far cry from actually killing someone.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#126748: Apr 14th 2021 at 11:40:14 PM

Thor's descent is arguably very pathetic since as mentioned while everyone manage to retain some grace and dignity he devolved into a slob of shut-in.

So while most are sympathetic to his plight, some view him with discontent, finding him despicably pathetic.

Which granted not everybody is a nice guy. Only Rhodey is the one who makes barbs like that cause he obviously views Thor far harsher than everyone else.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#126749: Apr 15th 2021 at 1:21:10 AM

Let's not forget that, until Infinity War, Rhodey was also the only character to have suffered a long-lasting physical injury as part of their activities (and because of infighting between the Avengers to boot), and there were not that many Avengers who had suffered a psychological injury either (Tony's PTSD, which is fixed by the end of IM3, and Wanda losing Pietro, which she seemed to have gotten over with by Civil War). And even by Endgame, there was still no Avengers who had suffered any injury apart from the loss of a loved one (it occurs to me as I type this that it's a bad thing to have a sibling, adopted or not, in the MCU).
So maybe the guy felt entitled to a little snarkiness. In particular, Thor, who went on destroying his perfect body while Rhodey was working on making his body functional again, may have seem a particularly tempting target.

Edited by C105 on Apr 15th 2021 at 10:21:44 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#126750: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:19:14 AM

I feel that the claim that it is simply "in-character" for the others to be callous to Thor is insufficient because character friction should serve a larger arc purpose than just jabs for their own sake. For instance, in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 Peter and Rocket are frequently dicks to each other, but the movie doesn't leave their attitude as just something they do. It starts to become clear that the two of them are rude to each other because of lingering emotional issues. Peter became a Manchild imitating what he thought a cool guy to be his dad would be like, and Rocket is caustic to anyone who treats him kindly because he thinks they'll eventually leave him. The plot then leads them to growing out of their immature ways. Peter stops idolizing his lost father and unlocks power from the love of his found family, and Rocket starts opening up to those close to him.

In Endgame the other Avengers constant sniping at Thor doesn't really serve a purpose toward their own character development. It's something they do even after he's gotten over his burdensome guilt, so their disrespect isn't viewed by the narrative as a problem.


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