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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#126126: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:06:02 PM

I feel like Zemo will blame the Avengers for the Snap but then Bucky or Sam says “No, dumbass, we would have had a much smoother time against Thanos if it wasn’t for you splitting us apart.”

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Mar 16th 2021 at 4:06:21 AM

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126127: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:06:22 PM

MCU Thor would find it harder to just give someone a palace than comic Thor did

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 16th 2021 at 4:06:29 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#126128: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:09:45 PM

[up][up]He'd probably reason something like "Well, if a lone man like me can split you apart, that's just further proof that you're bad and incompetent."

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#126129: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:20:35 PM

Tbh, it's not entirely clear whether Zemo even knew that the Avengers created Ultron at all. His specific gripe was that their battle spilled over into his country and killed a bunch of people including his family -> hence, superheroes are careless, destructive, and face no consequences for their actions, and thus must be wiped out.

He's not particularly concerned with why the fight happened, only that it did, people got hurt, and the Avengers weren't affected by this at all (as far as he believed or wanted to believe).

His mindset is such that he would totally blame them for Thanos, and wouldn't care about any mitigating factors. "They fought an alien warlord, and literally half of everyone died" would just be proof to him that he was right all along.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 16th 2021 at 1:21:27 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#126130: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:23:16 PM

Also, has it been confirmed if Zemo survived the Snap? I assume Falcon & WS will answer it one way or another, but maybe there's been Word of God on the situation.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126131: Mar 16th 2021 at 1:48:14 PM

Maybe he’s pissed that the avengers stole him from sweet oblivion once again

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#126132: Mar 16th 2021 at 2:03:20 PM

The official death toll for the battle in Sokovia is relatively very low, too. So most of the damage is just to infrastructure which is a much easier fix for someone like Tony and the international community at large.

Yeah. I just saw that in the Wandavision thread. The total casualties for Sokovia (that's deaths and injuries) was 177 people.

Low number? I thought so too, then I remembered Quicksilver. Considering how much ground Pietro was capable of covering, I'd posit he's a big reason why casualties were so low. In addition to the Avengers likely drawing all the fire.

Like, with Pietro on the ground plowing through drones like crazy, and Thor, Vision and Tony (and later Rhodey) covering things from the air, it's not so crazy to think that they were able to take out a lot of drones before they were able to kill anyone.

Add in the fact they must have evacuated a lot of people before Ultron even got rolling with his plan and ....wow. They likely did a really good job.

And the casualty toll for the battle of New York is actually even lower too. Like, I think it was apparently only 78 people (again, deaths and injuries). And like, they were working with a smaller numbers, and an army with a much bigger arsenal. Now that's unbelievable.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Mar 16th 2021 at 9:03:38 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#126134: Mar 16th 2021 at 2:50:31 PM

There was a study done when the first Avengers came out to estimate how much damage was done during the Battle of New York, and the estimates placed it at around $160 billion.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#126135: Mar 16th 2021 at 3:53:47 PM

An addendum: the number of casualties for the battle of New York was actually 74. So that's four less people than I thought.

Now the amount of destruction mentioned in the post above makes sense, but I'm baffled to how so few could have died.

Because yes, it's true that Thor was using Lightning to bottleneck the portal, Tony was flying around shooting down every thing, Hulk was smashing all the things (not in that way you perverts), and Hawkeye was watching things from high above, but even with that, and even if they likely kept casualties lower than they could have been only 74 dead seems impossible.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126136: Mar 16th 2021 at 3:58:07 PM

The chitauri spent time herding everyone together to kill them in groups so maybe they were too organized for their own good

Alternatively maybe that’s how the avengers unlocked the stinger, by going for an A rank on the last battle

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 16th 2021 at 6:58:37 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#126137: Mar 16th 2021 at 4:00:36 PM

Should have gone for S Rank so Loki would have been an ally in the next campaign.

Would have made Ultron much more avoidable.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#126138: Mar 16th 2021 at 4:10:17 PM

I’m kinda fascinated by this rabbit hole because it would mean Thor 2 and then Ragnarok going a completely different direction

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#126139: Mar 16th 2021 at 4:52:39 PM

Also, has it been confirmed if Zemo survived the Snap? I assume Falcon & WS will answer it one way or another, but maybe there's been Word of God on the situation.

They haven't told us yet, but I know we had a conversation about this ages ago that boiled down to two lose-lose scenario:

  • If Zemo survived the Snap: He had to deal with the surviving Avengers pulling through and still keep the world safe.
  • If Zemo didn't survive: not only would he have to deal with being virtually dead for five years, he would have to deal with the fact that despite his best efforts, the Avengers still managed to band together and be stronger than ever.

And some of us speculated that Zemo's mask could be some odd tribute to Thanos, I think? I wish I could find the conversation more easily...sad

EDIT: Never mind, I found it!

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 16th 2021 at 5:15:21 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#126140: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:00:41 PM

It wouldn't change TDW too much, since there Loki was inconsequential at first and then a (reluctant) ally, so he just wouldn't be reluctant and he'd stand a better chance of openly surviving the battle instead of being killed off/having it revealed that he survived and replaced Odin somehow. The main threat of Ragnarok would still be out there, too; Loki would just not be a convenient scapegoat for her being unleashed (and every other problem with the Nine Realms).

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#126141: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:50:23 PM

Zemo got dusted and when he reappeared five years later, his cell had been disassembled. He escaped by slowly walking out the building without attracting any attention to himself.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#126142: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:52:40 PM

I wanna know what happened to construction workers who were standing inside an area that had been filled with concrete during the five years.

Or people who were in an airplane.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#126143: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:52:52 PM

It would've been kind of awkward if someone was placed in Zemo's cell after he got snapped. There's not a whole lot of room there, and the possibility of what might've happened is... messy.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#126144: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:53:43 PM

[up][up] Word of God already clarified that, everyone who got brought back was brought back in safe positions (basically in the ground)

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#126145: Mar 16th 2021 at 7:58:59 PM

As they put it, Smart Hulk took that into account when he made the wish to bring them all back. Because he's smart.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#126146: Mar 16th 2021 at 8:06:17 PM

[up][up] True, and as hectic as the scene where we see the return in WandaVision was, the main problem is that the hospital suddenly has way more patients then it has capacity.

The main risk of injury is people getting knocked over in the confusion or not getting the necessary treatment for whatever they were in the hospital for 5 years ago, not materializing into objects/people that occupied the same space as they were in when they got dusted.

Edited by Falrinn on Mar 16th 2021 at 8:07:02 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#126147: Mar 16th 2021 at 8:10:34 PM

Right, that's true.

Still sucks for anybody killed indirectly by the Snap, like patients whose surgeons disappeared, or people caught in car accidents. And there were probably at least a few million of those secondary deaths.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#126148: Mar 17th 2021 at 10:28:08 AM

So it seems the Chinese government doesn't like Chloe Zhao.

Wonder if this means The Eternals will have the honor of being the first MCU film to be Banned in China.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#126149: Mar 17th 2021 at 10:44:48 AM

Would be fantastic Tbh. Maybe it will stop them from pandering to them such an extent they'll film near concentration camps.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#126150: Mar 17th 2021 at 10:49:38 AM

How Disney responds to this should be interesting. They can't just get rid of Zhao a la Winnie the Pooh because China said so, it would infuriate a lot of people over here.

Cynically speaking, my guess is that they'll keep Zhao, but suddenly the movie will be treated more like a write-off rather than a big new installment in the series, maybe even with them abruptly investing less money into it.


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