Marvel Cinematic Universe

It's a good movie, but I found it a bit overrated.

After all these high-praising critics, I expected something in the vein of The Dark Knight (or Logan, speaking of more recent exampples).

Which is ironic given I find both of those overrated (the dark knight a lot moreso).

Buh? No, he wasn't. None of Fury's crew were working for Mysterio.

Every one of Fury's men who aren't Maria Hill disappear after the Molten Man fight. Not just Dmitri, but the woman who gives Peter the "stealth costume," etc and so on. Dmitri's only role is to deliver Peter and his class to where Fury wants him to go. Later, when Mysterio takes over the trip, he has his screenwriter dude Guterman hijack them and do that instead.

But they're not "unaccounted for," they're just not major characters and no longer factored into the plot.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 12:25:03 PM

Huh, I could've sworn that Dimitri was revealed to be a mole undercover working for Beck, but I can't find any confirmation of that, so maybe I remembered wrong.

Doesn't matter anyway, the character's full name is Dimitri Smerdyakov, so he absolutely is Chameleon.

I mean, maybe. Or it could be a naming reference, like how most of Peter’s classmates are named after comic characters but only a handful of them actually have roles comparable to their comic equivalents. Either way, I wouldn’t call it set-up. Especially given how in every other case the Spidey series has actually wanted the audience to remember a character with an important name, they’ve been much more explicit.

I do like the theory that “Fury’s” group are all Skrulls, tho.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 12:48:12 PM

Considering the next movie looks to be about a manhunt for Spidey, and comics Dmitri is the half-brother of Kraven, I'd be shocked if they didn't bring him back to make that connection.

They'll probably also bring back Donald Glover as Aaron Davis to play Prowler, starting as one of the guys hunting Spidey down before he changes sides and teams up with him in the climax.

I wonder if when Kraven shows up they’ll keep him as a human or as the lion man his Ultimate self is.

Human, I hope. I much prefer the KLH characterization (the definitive Kraven for me and many, of course) where he's a regular guy juiced to the gills on herbs of some kind (allá bootleg, evil Black Panther) to level the playing field with superhumans, but that process has permanently reduced his health and lifespan by a lot. (hence why in KLH it is pretty much all but stated he has days to live after so much abuse to his body).

I too really like the concept of Kraven as a “normal” man (albeit with a bit of Charles Atlas Superpower) who still manages to be a physical as well as psychological threat to Spidey thanks to tactics, weaponry and skills.

“What if Kraven was a superpowered lion man?” always felt to me like one of those times the Ultimate comics aimed for low hanging fruit, just like “what if the Green Goblin was an actual goblin monster?”

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 1:02:29 AM

Everyone talks about the Green Goblin but what about the Hob Goblin,aka Yellow Goblin?

He is kind of a copycat. Even if the 90's tv show used him like a preview for Norm, I dunno.

There was a mixup in his being used first, but it worked out in the end thanks to Mark Hamill.

Of course, at one point Ned was thought to be the Hobgoblin, and that ain’t happening.

I love Hobgoblin and he’s kind of my number two pick for the next movie. Especially if they composite a bunch of his MO’s.

His whole “Supervillain Inc.” thing where he leases o it a name and super tech to crooks, basically having a whole business of Hobgoblins while he stays in the shadows and uses misdirection, frame-ups and other bits of subterfuge to keep himself from being revealed, would be another cool bit in the trend of Spidey’s MCU villains being people who are taking advantage of the superhero world they live in for profit.

I could still see them framing Ned if that’s the case. Like, eventually people figure out that there’s someone pulling the strings of all the people with Hobgoblin tech, so Kingsley frames Spidey’s “guy in the chair,” taking advantage of the fact that people already suspect Spidey or murder and attempted world domination. The fact that Ned is obviously not physically a match for Hobgoblin would then not be a factor so much, because what he would be frame of is being the bad guys’ Mission Control.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 3:12:00 AM

I like Hobgoblin, particularly his TAS version, and I'm fond of the idea of Roderick Kingsley as this Diabolical Mastermind guy Only in It for the Money who provides other supervillains (or other Goblins) with equipment. Plus, he also lends himself well to Whodunnit stories (originating in one and whatnot), and those are actually pretty rare in superhero movies. I actually can't think of a single superhero whodunnit movie.

partially

Edited by Gaon on Jul 12th 2020 at 3:12:24 AM

Well, technically Norman beat Kingsley to the who's the man behind the mask concept for Goblins, but Roderick did do it better (more due to behind the scenes issues true, but still).

But I think he works better following Norman. There was a thing with him thinking Norman was crazy for trying to be a full on super villain, but then he starts suiting up and actually kinda realizes he enjoys the power that comes from being an anonymous villain.

I kinda like that about Roddy. Still a little nutty, but still self aware and sane enough that he can be hands off, and I think he's another among the very small handful of spidey villains (with Shocker being the other) who doesn't let personal beefs cloud his judgement.

I think Norman is a better goblin than Kingsley but I think Kingsley goes a longer way. I get fed up with too much Norman more quickly because he only has so many modes but Hobgoblin is more down for whatever nonsense because he's not pathologically fixated on Spiders-Man.

More than almost any other villain, especially more than any other goblin, Roderick knew when to fold 'em.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 12th 2020 at 6:20:10 AM

Indeed. Hell, despite somewhat losing out on his one encounter with Norman during Goblins at the Gate, Roderick still ending it free from prison, and relaxing on a beach in Hawaii.

He doesn't waste an opportunity to bow out gracefully, that much you have to give him. If things had been a little different, he probably could have succeeded in his plans to take Norman's place.

Speaking of Norman, to promote his Big Bad role in Far Cry 6, Giancarlo Esposito hinted at having a Marvel role...

...and Twitter is back to clamoring for him being Norman, Xavier, or Magneto.

I myself wouldn't oppose him being Norman Osborn since he's already nailing the "massive bad guy who also happens to be a dad" archetype thanks to the first trailer for Far Cry 6.

"Wasn't a common complaint about the previous Spider-Man 3 that it had too many villains?"

I know several people have already answered this, but I will respond anyway.

The idea is that only Kraven and Scorpion are main villains, the rest of the villains would only be Elite Mooks.

After discovering the identity of Spider-man, many villains will try to kill him trying to seek revenge or for the reward.

Spider Verse also handled its loads of villains pretty well

The key was that only three of them got much focus

I think the next movie could easily have 10 or so villains without feeling crowded:

• There's a manhunt for Spidey, tons of weirdos get it in their head to try and take him down.

• JJJ starts it, and his man in the race is Scorpion.

• Dimitri goes under Chameleon to take him down, and he brings his brother Kraven along, who's WAY more into the manhunt aspect.

• Aaron Davis decides to pimp himself out with tech and become Prowler. He joins the group of weirdos in trying to take in Spidey.

• Chameleon, Scorpion, and Kraven are the main threats, Chameleon is beaten by MJ or Aunt May, Scorpion and Kraven are fought as a team with Prowler deciding to help Spidey fight them.

The main problem with other films is making too make villain subplots. Not having too many villains, but too many villains all with their own separate stories and goals. Having a bunch of villains all be motivated by the same thing removes that problem.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 12th 2020 at 6:00:26 AM

Oh man if they adapted Aunt May "poisoning" the Chameleon I'd love that.

Speaking of the problem of adding a lot of main villains, it's that most of the times they are usually a Big Bad Ensemble.(That is, they work separately and with totally different goals)

If it was a Big Bad Duumvirate or a Big Bad + The Dragon, the fact that there were multiple main villains wouldn't be that troublesome.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 12th 2020 at 7:00:14 AM

Speaking of characters who were in Enter the Spider-Verse, I wouldn't mind seeing Tombstone. Or even better, Tombstone and Beetle as a Father + Daughter duo. Black supervillains get so little screentime and all, and I love how Tombstone is usually an exception.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 7:05:23 AM

Should they get an actual albino actor to play Tombstone in a live-action role? I know Evil Albino is kind of an iffy trope in the wrong hands, but I think it'd be neat if they cast someone who actually does have albinism.