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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118501: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:55:58 PM

In general, rhe end of Phase 1 and going into Phase 2 felt a lot like a period where Marvel was afraid to branch out. They were setting up Avengers, and setting up only, and generally played it safe and only hit new ground when they had to - with Guardians and Winter Soldier as the primary exceptions.

It hit the characters with sequels the worst (though again, an exception in Cap), and in that period you got some of the most repetitive plot beats, bog-standard antagonists and impact-less plots in the entire MCU, without an awful lot of new layers being added to anyone.

It hit its peak with Ultron, and even though Ant-Man did start to break out of it you can still see that "play it safe to the exclusion of everything" mentality there, just lessening over time.

I've always associated that going away with Perlmutter's departure.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 18th 2020 at 4:57:20 AM

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118502: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:14:26 PM

Tangent, but was any individual character franchise as disrupted by the Avengers movies as Thor was?

Ending of Thor 1: "I've destroyed the Rainbow Bridge, but I swear I will find a way back and reunite with Jane."

Avengers 1: "Turns out Odin had a way to get me back to Earth without any complications. I don't really have time for Jane, but I'll pop back over in a few years, I guess."

Ending of Thor 2: "I've decided that I no longer want to live on Asgard. I plan to stay on Earth with Jane forever."

Avengers 2: "I mean I guess I have to leave to figure out this infinity stone stuff, whatever."

Ending of Thor 3: "...back to Earth? Please?"

Avengers 3: "Oh god why"

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118503: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:17:04 PM

Avengers 4: "I'm fat but screw Earth, I'm gonna give this space thing another shot."

The legend has returned.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118504: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:29:57 PM

I wonder about the Jane Thor movie. Is it going to be more space-based, or more terrestrial? The Thor trilogy was strictly focused on Thor as a space high fantasy series with little space for content that didn't fit that mold (which is one of the reasons why Earth felt so shakily placed in the first two), but with a new protag comes new character goals and such.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 18th 2020 at 5:31:55 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118505: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:34:11 PM

Look, in fairness, its Thor 2 that decided that Thor didn't pop in between movies.

Hell, you could have had Thor visiting Jane the whole time or maybe she's been on Asgard helping to repair the Bifrost.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#118506: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:35:58 PM

I don't think Thor 4 is supposed to star Jane Thor so much as feature her; supposedly Taika Waititi has confirmed that Chris Hemsworth is the star.

And oh, poor Thor. You can make his character progression from Thor 1-Avengers-2 cohesive with some work, but going off into space after Avengers 2 throws a wrench in it, and then after that he goes completely off the rails and each movie's portrayal contradicts the last.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#118507: Jun 18th 2020 at 5:51:01 PM

The jump from "You don't need a hammer" to "You need to find a new hammer to beat Thanos" still makes me laugh in a dark way.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118508: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:01:41 PM

Every time I watch Guardians 2, I keep forgetting that Stallone is in this movie.

The legend has returned.
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118509: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:02:09 PM

I love the destruction of Mjolnir and the "Mjolnir was just a tool" bits from Ragnarok, and I love the Nivilidir scenes from Infinity War. It takes a lot of compartmentalizing to love them both at the same time.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118510: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:03:02 PM

I feel like 'you don't need Mjolnir' is a different thing from expecting Thor to punch Thanos to death.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#118511: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:16:31 PM

That's one thing I always found a bit off; where was Thor between Thor: The Dark World and Avengers: Age of Ultron? The Stinger for Dark World suggests he stayed on Earth and Ragnarok seemed to go with this idea (what with Thor starting to realize Loki has taken Odin's place), but it feels off to me. Was Thor just chilling at Jane's place for two years? Was he periodically traveling between Earth and the Nine Realms between films?

In fact, when did Jane break up with Thor? It seems to have happened before Ragnarok, but Thor went on his journey to find the Infinity Stones immediately after the end of Age of Ultron. Did they break-up during that film? Was it right before Thor had to leave, or was even before that? Was the scene where Thor was comparing girlfriends with Tony actually him trying to hide that their relationship was on the rocks?

The more I think about it, the more unexplored territory it is. Where's my fanfic exploring this part of Thor and Jane's relationship?

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118512: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:20:07 PM

That's what Thor 4 should hopefully tackle.

The legend has returned.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#118513: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:23:00 PM

Given that mutants are a metaphor for marginalized classes and mutant oppression is supposed to be a stand-in for real-world oppression, tying the origins of anti-mutant sentiment to a verifiable act of deliberate, mutant-caused terrorism kind of sends a questionable message.

True, but the actions of a small extremist faction causing widespread fear and hatred towards that group as a whole is what we saw happen with the Muslim community in America due to the actions of 19 hijackers.

I doubt they'd even use the Namor explanation here since there's been nothing to even suggest he exists in the MCU, but who knows.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#118514: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:35:54 PM

In the cut ending for Thor 2, Jane broke up with Thor during then because she felt his duties on Asgard were more important, so who knows if that's the direction they were thinking of in later films.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 18th 2020 at 6:36:09 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#118515: Jun 18th 2020 at 6:47:48 PM

I still don't get why it had to be an either-or decision. The Bifrost was restored so Thor could go back and forth whenever he wanted (Heimdall allowing it, and he seemed pretty amenable to sending Thor wherever he wanted to go), and Jane would've loved to relocate to an advanced alien world powered by magiscience for an extended period of time if Thor had to return to Asgard.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118516: Jun 18th 2020 at 7:04:41 PM

Weren't both Tony and Thor "on a break" from their partners as of the opening party in Age of Ultron?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118517: Jun 18th 2020 at 7:14:07 PM

I could see Namor being introduced as a villain to set up for the mutant hate in later films. It has more impact if it happens more recently, like as the plot of Black Panther 2 or some other film.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#118518: Jun 18th 2020 at 10:41:35 PM

It sounds like another Avenger, Echo, is being cast for one of the Disney Plus shows. Probably either Hawkeye (since she was one of the people to use the Ronin identity) or Moon Knight.

Sarah Finn put out the call for a deaf female, Native American, First Nations, Indigenous or Latinx, 18 or older, to play the role of “Malia” in an upcoming Disney Plus series set to shoot this Fall. Finn is looking for someone “independent, athletic and bright” to play a 20 something character.

It’s obviously important to note that this casting call does not indicate what series the role is for, so we can only speculate that it’s for Echo, one of Marvel’s most prominent deaf characters, speculation made much easier by the fact that the description checks just about every box on the Maya Lopez checklist.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118519: Jun 18th 2020 at 11:36:51 PM

I think the MCU populace has a general weariness of superheroes that could get ugly when Mutants come out of the woodwork. Saying the general public should in some way be protected from enhanced individuals sounds reasonable when "enhanced individuals" translates to "The Avengers plus a tiny handful of survivors of weird scientific accidents", but when there turns out to be a visible percentage of the world's populations who are born enhanced and often just want to live their lives, then saying that people need to be protected from them gets unreasonable. And you know what maybe in a few movies they work through that and make steps towards progress but there's still prejudice in subtler ways.
After multiple acts of terrorism committed by Mutants, to say nothing of the questionable decisions made by “good” Mutants, I’d say, “we need to protect ourselves from Mutants” is pretty reasonable.

We were just talking about this. Yes, because the Mutants are the next step of the natural Evolution, and humans are afraid they'll get replaced.
Mutants are a result of Celestials experimenting on humanity. They’re about as natural as Ultron.

I knew Namor was good for nothing.

Namor and Magneto are easily the worst things to happen to Mutants.

Edited by windleopard on Jun 18th 2020 at 11:37:33 AM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#118520: Jun 18th 2020 at 11:42:10 PM

Personally on rewatching Age of Ultron recently, it was a lot more fun than I remembered. It did drag in places, but the interaction between the Avengers was great. I think I fell victim to a sort of reverse nostalgia, making the bad parts seem a lot worse than they were while forgetting the good parts.

Edited by FGHIK on Jun 18th 2020 at 1:42:18 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118521: Jun 18th 2020 at 11:45:20 PM

The Trans-American Hulk of course gave us Hulk and Ross, set up the idea of Banner trying to Control Hulk, established that there was still work done on derivative super-soldier serum... Leader and Abomination were cancelled, of course.

Trans-American Hulk?

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118522: Jun 18th 2020 at 11:50:35 PM

RE:This post - I think the implication was that Thor stayed on earth with Jane after Dark World and joined up with the others for some Avengering whenever needed. As for when they broke up, perhaps Thor would periodically visit Earth during his space quest? It's either that, or Jane broke up via space telegram.

Weren't both Tony and Thor "on a break" from their partners as of the opening party in Age of Ultron?

IIRC, the party scene in Ultron put Tony and Thor in a passive-aggressive weewee measuring contest about who had the more successful girlfriend. Pepper dumped Tony shortly before Civil War, and it's unclear when Jane sent the space telegram.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118523: Jun 19th 2020 at 12:00:43 AM

[up][up][up][up]"Next step of evolution"...that is not how evolution works.

Evolution isn't about the future. It's about the past.

With mutants for example, one could look at a rise in mutant birthrates and see if there's any possible correlation with past events. In the original comics, the detonation of the atomic bombs in WW II triggered a rise in mutant birthrates when beforehand they were extremely rare.

Mutants aren't even "superior" in a natural selection sense since that's ultimately about reproduction. Unless being a mutant increased one's chances in the dating pool, it's not actually an advantage. Especially when you consider that some mutations are so extreme that the mutants are physically incapable of having sex. Meaning they are genetic dead ends.

Edited by M84 on Jun 20th 2020 at 3:06:22 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118524: Jun 19th 2020 at 1:05:03 AM

I'm not gonna discuss semantics, I was pointing out the IN-UNIVERSE reason on why Mutants are more hated than other powered people.

You can argue on how that doesn't make sense, but racism in general isn't really known for being a coherent, reasonable ideology either.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118525: Jun 19th 2020 at 1:08:31 AM

The point is that Mutants are not the "next step of natural evolution". They're a by-product of space god aliens messing around with a bunch of cavepeople.

It is not a matter of semantics. It's a matter of a fundamental misunderstanding of what evolution is.

Edited by M84 on Jun 19th 2020 at 4:11:45 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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