Marvel Cinematic Universe

Rachel Bloom, co-creator, executive producer, and writer for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, had extreme anxiety and depression, which her character on the show also has. The show is well known for being extremely realistic in its depiction of mental illness and even had its main character diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, which Bloom and the other writers did a ton of research on.

The guy responsible for Monk has OCD.

Was thinking about Stan Lee's cameos, and how they could handle them now that he's dead. I think they should just have a picture of him prominently in the background of a scene. To make it even better, have every appearance of said picture be the same picture. Kind of a way to say that while Stan is dead, his legacy is everywhere in this universe.

That's a fine way to continue the cameos, I think. As long as they don't turn it into a Where's Waldo game, and they make it as respectful as possible. They'll surely never forget to include Stan Lee in the special thanks section of the credits.

The picture idea was already done throughout the Netflix series (where framed Stan Lee pictures popped up in the background once per season) so I think that's the route they'll be going.

James Wan once pitched a Blade reboot to Marvel.

So today I rewatched "The Incredible Hulk" (for the first time in the uncut version, I believe) and.....no, even after all these years I just don't get all the bad rep this movie gets.

I'll even be the odd man out and say: This version of Hulk is, by far, my most favorite Live Action version. That goes for pretty much every aspect. First the design: I really LOVE the rippling muscles, the tone of the green, and most importantly, the face. His eyes, his grim, vicious look, everything about this Hulk screams "Pure, unrestrained rage." And he acts like it too. He doesn't go out of his way to kill, but he has no problems with it either. If somebody attacks him, be it these bullies or the soldiers, he smashes them into bits, no "He calculates exactly where to punch so he never hurts a civilian" bullshit from the comics. Also, I really liked Edward Norton as Banner and it is sad that he had to leave the franchise like that. Oh, and the soundtrack. Craig Armstrong really delivered on that one. I love the main theme especially, very suspenseful. The film off course isn't without its weakpoints. The humour was pretty forced, the chemistry between Tyler and Norton could have been better, and Blonsky also wasn't the best villain (Ross however I really liked), but yeah, all in all I very much enjoy this movie even to this day.

It has a pretty different tone than all the other MCU films, for sure, it is dark, but not in an overblown way imO.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 15th 2018 at 4:16:53 PM

The ending with the jellyfish to this day still baffles me,what the hell was that about?

I think that was Hulk. The Incredible Hulk ended with Bruce going on the run to Canada and seemingly gaining full control of his Hulk transformations.

Yup. The 2003 movie is not part of the MCU. And absolutely awful Never would defend that one.

I'll agree with you on most points except the Hulk design and Edward Norton.

First, I hate how the Hulk looks like some ripped academy playboy rather than the muscled out monstrosity he's supposed to look like. The Hulk should not look like a gym rat put on green make up, he should look like someone shaved a gorilla then put on green make up in him.

As for Edward Norton, I'm gonna air out a rather controversial opinion here but I think the guy has no charisma at all. I watched the whole movie and the guy might as well have white noise coming out of his mouth for all the impression he left. Same deal with Liv Tyler.

The guy they cast as The Leader, however, I found really fun to watch.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 15th 2018 at 1:54:09 PM

Talking crap about Lou Ferrigno, mah boi?

(It's alright, he looks like an asshole anyway)

Well, the gym rat physique is quite common in Hulk depictions across all media, so I'm used to it. The problem is that most people associate strength with being ripped, although the truth is quite far from that. I'm happy they went for a better balance since the first Avengers movie.

My first issue that through the whole movie I see Edward Norton. And no point do I see actually Bruce Banner.

My second issue is that it isn't even the entertaining version of Edward Norton.

And then you get Liv Taylor constantly whispering her lines and a dialogue which is just boooooooring.

There is exactly one scene I like in the whole movie: That's when the Psychiater tells Ross off and he walks out grumbling about where "she always finds those guys".

I just find the Ruffalo Hulk too....jolly looking to be threatening. Sometimes he even reminds me on the Big Green Baby from 2003. The 2008 Hulk looks like an actual beast to be afraid of.

Betty and Banner still had more chemistry than Banner and Natasha however. I ain't doing that.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 15th 2018 at 6:22:29 PM

I think that's part of the point: the Hulk, the savage one at least, was never really a monster, he's a 3 years old kid with super strength and the mercurial temper most children tend to have. Hell, when given the time to actually develop, as in Ragnarok, he becomes rather reasonable to deal with.

Yeah, exactly. The Hulk is supposed to be like a child. And I just love how Ruffalo adopts those specific Bruce Banner mannerism.

That depends on the version/writer whatever. I guess it also comes down to personal preferences. I like the Hulk most when he is neither an out and out monster (current Immortal Hulk f.e.) or somebody who is just misunderstood and would never actually hurt anybody, just destroy stuff, but something in-between.

He doesn't go out of his way to antagonize people, but when he is pushed, he doesn't pull any punches. The 2008 portrayed him just like that.

As do the later movies, so I don't quite get the point. Well, at least until ragnarok, but after years of being cheered on for "smashing" it isn't really surprising that this becomes his first instinct.

The thing I like the most in Ragnarok is that it emphasizes the split-personality thing that Peter David built his entire vision of the character around.

The Hulk is not just Bruce Banner repressed Id, he really is his own individual, and the whole reason the two never really got into conflict with one another is because Bruce never let him out of the shed long enough for the guy to even notice he was being used pretty much as an attack dog and get sick of it.

I've always thought the split personality thing with Hulk is a poor idea that made both Hulk and Banner less interesting than they could be otherwise (and this is coming from someone who typically like split personality plots in comics books), which is why I rather liked the depiction of Hulk pre-Ragnarok as an unrestrained extension of Banner's own persona (rather than him being a completely distinct person that Banner happens to carry around inside him, which renders the existence of Banner as a character pointless and means Hulk - with his intentionally limited emotional range - still has to carry himself as though he's a full character) more than most other incarnations of him. It's one of the MCU's best minor examples of being an improved adaptation.

Though Ragnarok, at least, still makes it work by establishing a reason for why their circumstances changed, and showing that it's had strange affects on both of their psyches. Still, it's one of the big reasons I'm excited that they seem to be leading towards Merged Hulk in the future.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 15th 2018 at 10:12:18 AM

This is also why I would love getting an Immortal Hulk adaptation, since that really does not only emphasis that they are two separate individuals, but also how horrifying that would be, especially if the Hulk is no longer in his "third person child-like" phase, but in a more "smart and morally ambiguous" phase.

Count me in as another person that dislikes the Hulk looking like a typical ripped bodybuilder rather than an actual athlete. The sheer almost laser-like muscle definition (something that IRL tends to be unnatural, usually brought upon by deliberate dehydration to make the muscles pop out) and the strangely bratty teenager-esque hair of 2008 Hulk just made him look silly to me. I much prefer his more realistically muscled Ruffalo look, which more closely resembles the physique of actual strongmen rather than a bodybuilder, with his less bizarre mane of hair and the ol' chest hair.

As for TIH as a movie itself, really it has several problems. One of them is that it only barely functions as a movie, with bland characters with the depth of saucer plates (most are defined by a single emotion: Bruce is meek, Betty is sad, Ross is bossy, Blonsky is bloodthirsty, Hulk is angry) making questionable decisions because the plot is forcing them to. It's less a film and more a loosely connected sequence of action setpieces, which is no surprise given that tends to be a shared quality of its director's films.

the "MCU formula", as it were, involves making their superhero films focus on the hero's inner turmoil as a way to carry the movie (Thor has to atone for his blood knightness, Stark is haughty asshole who has to redeem himself, Cap must seize the opportunity to fight for what's right, the Guardians need to overcome their collective lives of roguesness to do good, e.t.c). One of the main reasons TIH fails as even a basic cinematic concept is that it doesn't really focus or care all that much about Banner's inner conflict. His conflict is mostly "I don't want the Hulk" going to "I accept I now must be the Hulk". At no point the actual inner struggle of controlling the Hulk is addressed in the movie, just with lip service to the whole idea via the two mentions of Banner using meditation. The only halfway compelling character in the movie is Blonsky and that's mostly carried on Tim Roth's performance and the somewhat peculiar idea of this soldier unraveling mentally and physically because he is obsessed with being the strongest man around and can't cope when faced with something obviously much stronger than he is.

When I first saw the film, I was of a similar opinion but found the movie enjoyable mediocrity because the action scenes were somewhat fun, but the CGI has aged horribly and even the action itself looks geriatric compared to what the MCU would later do with the character in The Avengers, Thor Ragnarok and even Infinity War. The action scenes are still fun enough to keep the film from being a complete unmitigated disaster, but I can't really say they haven't aged like milk.

The 2003 film has almost the flipside problem where despite having some heavy-duty, actually interesting character work on Banner's damaged mind and his daddy issues plus surprisingly nuanced takes on the aforementioned father and General Ross, has some action scenes that don't manage to pump any blood (and have also aged horribly, like the fight with the dogs) in a rather ponderous, slow, molasses-like narrative making the movie a rather dull affair. The director's own artistic flourishes also work to the movie's detriment every now and then (the bizarre comic book like frame division is disorienting, for one).

Despite this, the 2003 movie is still leagues ahead of TIH as an actual functioning film with a cohesive narrative and character arcs. Plus, it has some arresting imagery (Hulk and his father battling among the stormclouds is some great stuff).

In my mind, the 2003 film tried to be cerebral to the point of dullness with the Hulk, while the 2008 film swam the opposite direction and ended up mindless action to the point of stupidity. A perfect Hulk film, for me, would be somewhere in the middle between these two approaches and it hasn't yet be made.

The only thing TIH has going for it is some nice cinematography...and the soundtrack is actually pretty good. But the story is meh and while the right casting could have elevated it into something a little bit more engaging, this is the only MCU movie which is pretty much miscast from start to finish.

What I like about the later Hulk Design is that I can still see Marc Ruffalo in his face.

It's funny you say that, 'cause that's actually a divide among hulk fans themselves: should the story be a cerebral character study of someone with the most extreme case of split personality ever known to fiction, or a blood pumping action story about the impossible feats of strength of this green dude who smashes things?

Obviously I stand with the latter group, as I still prefer TIH over Ang Lee, but for all I like to shit over the comics industry, I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical of Marvel Studios being capable of doing a movie that bridges that gap.

At least as it stands: while it has gotten much better at allowing the director's vision shine through, no doubt thanks to the Creative Committee getting the boot (obligatory "Fuck You Brian Michael Bendis" comment), I don't think the studio could, or is even all that interested in, making some auteur affair that a cerebral action movie like the one outlined above generally tends to be, as seen with stuff like The Matrix and Inception tends to be.

Hell, even the most complex of Marvel films are somewhat watered down, just compare Black Panther with Fruitvale Station (by the same director, mind).

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 15th 2018 at 7:17:48 AM

Honestly, I don't see why this has to be an either or thing...you can have the "Hulk is Banner's anger" angle, but you can also say that Banner's anger basically grew into something with its own mind....